Debate on Creationism

[leov]

Do you mean the big bang?

yes, and before.

 

[tayla]

The Bible would not present such a candid, graphic description of Jehovah’s actions, if it’s goal was to deceive people.

Yet from Matthew 22:37-39, it’s obvious Jehovah wants us to love Him.

How do you reconcile the two?

I don't need to reconcile Bible passages. Even Christian theologians struggle with this (and fail at it miserably).

 

[tayla]

So do products on an assembly line:

Only through processes already established.

In the early stages of galaxy and star formation, gravity attracts the dust and gas into closer proximity. In doing so, the relative positions and structures of matter result in the appearance of information. God is not supernaturally adding in information as the universe proceeds in time.

This process can be extrapolated to geological process and finally the appearance and functioning of biological organisms in their incredible complexity.

 

[leov]

No proof against God's existence is needed. If he/she doesn't *do* anything, doesn't interact with the universe in any way, why believe in him/her?

about God - we do not know that (interact) on physical level. i know that Something interacts on non - physical level.

 

[tayla]

you mean atheist form of creationism, like Big Bang Theory?

Please look up the meaning of the word "creationism". It refers to creation by a supernatural agent.

 

[tayla]

yes, and before.

Yes, cosmology is concerned with what caused the big bang, and there are various hypotheses about this.

 

[leov]

Please look up the meaning of the word "creationism". It refers to creation by a supernatural agent.

i understand that, two sides of the same medal. Beginning of physical world from atheistic point of view and theistic pov.

 

[tayla]

about God - we do not know that (interact) on physical level. i know that Something interacts on non - physical level.

There is no non-physical level. Everything is physical, including:

1. all of reality
2. consciousness and its contents
3. mind
4. time
5. entropy
6. information
7. energy
8. the laws of nature
9. quantum fields and the standard model

Therefore, all interactions occur within physical reality.

 

[tayla]

i understand that, two sides of the same medal. Beginning of physical world from atheistic point of view and theistic pov.

I'm trying to communicate using the accepted meanings of words, the dictionary meanings. If you want to use non-standard meanings of words, you should define each word every time you use it. Otherwise, there is no communication. (But a conversation like that would be very tedious indeed.)

 

[leov]

There is no non-physical level. Everything is physical, including:

1. all of reality
2. consciousness and its contents
3. mind
4. time
5. entropy
6. information
7. energy
8. the laws of nature
9. quantum fields and the standard model

Therefore, all interactions occur within physical reality.

that is to certain degree correct and incorrect fro m theistic point, nobody knows what nature of, for example, energy or gravity....

 

[leov]

I'm trying to communicate using the accepted meanings of words, the dictionary meanings. If you want to use non-standard meanings of words, you should define each word every time you use it. Otherwise, there is no communication. (But a conversation like that would be very tedious indeed.)

i am trying to look into the root of the issue.

 

[Subduction Zone]

you mean atheist form of creationism, like Big Bang Theory?

Creationism is a belief in woo and is not supported by evidence so your allegation fails.

 

[MonkeyFire]

God can't save you from your own anger/ bigotry. He can show you the way but must walk the path on your own. Ones own feelings are a result of ones own action. They can't hurt you if you don't suffer.

Moral of the story is the problem of evil has now been defeated.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Hello. I am going to challenge Creationists, more specifically Muslim or Christian Creationists, to present their best logical evidence for God. Since this is not science vs. religion, I don't want anything that's trying to pointlessly debunk evolution since it will only extend the argument or anything like that. I'll try to disprove yours logically, and the cycle will continue until one side stops debating.

I can't see this going anywhere of consequence. You're asking a conflated question, and you're going to get conflated answers -- which are not going to make a lot of sense and are not going to answer either of your questions.

(Your questions, by the way, since you addressed this to "creationists," are whether anything that has lived on earth is evidence of having been created, and how could you show that, and whether that creation was by something entirely different -- a "God.")

You would be much better off asking a very straightforward question (or perhaps 2, in 2 different threads), like "show me you evidence that species X was created, not evolved," and "show me you evidence for divine creation of life forms."

 

[Valjean]

Created things exists, so the creator also must exist.

Brilliant logic! How did I miss this clearly reasoned point? How have the intelligent classes all missed this?

 

[Valjean]

you mean atheist form of creationism, like Big Bang Theory?

Is Big Bang creationism, or physics?

 

[Valjean]

yes, and before.

There's a before?! How can there be a before if there is no time?
Please explain.

 

[Valjean]

about God - we do not know that (interact) on physical level. i know that Something interacts on non - physical level.

What would a "non-physical level" be? How would we detect or measure this?

 

[Valjean]

i understand that, two sides of the same medal. Beginning of physical world from atheistic point of view and theistic pov.

There is no "atheistic" point of view. Atheism is not a cosmological theory. Atheism has no beliefs. It's not a doctrine or belief system. Most atheists know little or nothing of theoretical physics.
As for the theistic POV, there are dozens of them, all different, and all based on folklore, not empirical evidence.

The beginning of the world is the purview of physics. The religion or lack of religion of the researchers has no bearing on their findings.

 

[leov]

There is no "atheistic" point of view. Atheism is not a cosmological theory. Atheism has no beliefs. It's not a doctrine or belief system. Most atheists know little or nothing of theoretical physics.
As for the theistic POV, there are dozens of them, all different, and all based on folklore, not empirical evidence.

The beginning of the world is the purview of physics. The religion or lack of religion of the researchers has no bearing on their findings.

we talking about poinrs o

There is no "atheistic" point of view. Atheism is not a cosmological theory. Atheism has no beliefs. It's not a doctrine or belief system. Most atheists know little or nothing of theoretical physics.
As for the theistic POV, there are dozens of them, all different, and all based on folklore, not empirical evidence.

The beginning of the world is the purview of physics. The religion or lack of religion of the researchers has no bearing on their findings.

e.g. Atheistic Cosmological Argument