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Featured Debate a Muslim

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Ghazaly, Jul 21, 2021.

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  1. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Lol. No need to get offended brother. And yes I will, and always will. One guy even insulted my mother. Thats how low, gutter level some people are. So if I disagree with you on something, dont pit me against some other low life, muslim, christian, atheist, buddhist or even an alien. Criticise me based on my case.

    Just two days ago one atheist spoke of my kid. He thought insulting someones relationship with a child works in some mysterious way. Another guy called my wife a gold digger. Thats how cheap people are.

    Edit: At least one of these guys who calls himself muslim is bogus. Im telling you he is bogus because its easily retrievable. He doesnt have even Childs knowledge in Islam. I mean you see, when you go to school you learn the ABC. He doesnt know that. Such an extremist, fanatical muslim doesnt even know the A in the alphabet. Has lesser knowledge in arabic than even the western, English educated curious Christian or atheist. Check all of his arguments out it will just be rhetoric.

    One other person is at least cutting and pasting from some sources and he has some education for sure. Very limited, but some education is there and you can see by the communication. The other guy, I dont know what to say. I mean, I seriously dont know what to say. Its hard to believe he is even a Muslim. I mean someone who became a Muslim yesterday has more knowledge.
     
    #661 firedragon, Jul 26, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2021
  2. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Please ask, provide verse, the context.
     
  3. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Lol. Some people believe that when you take a child, breastfeeding seals the deal. Thats the beginning of calling one child adopted. Otherwise you are just a caretaker.
     
  4. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    I can agree, however it is up to you to go and find the claims made on google by their writers, and to establish what is false.

    It is easier to see that the Quran and Hadith is a confused jumble mumble concocted book by an old sex crazed man who used paganist religion to go out and rampage the people around him, and looting their money and woman.

    At lease Google has websites of scholars who studied Islam, just as I did, and who summarised the Quran and Hadith and Muhammad's life, so we all can learn from multiple sources what is realy going on.

    You see, finding the truth is very easy.
    Listen to the religion and their propaganda, then go to their opposition and learn what they say is wrong.
    Take bothe these views, and check these claims.
    Sometimer you find the religion lying through their teeth, sometimes the writer on Google.

    However, it is very easy to see who adheres to porpaganda, and who listens to facts.
    I suggest you go and check up on what the Quran and Hadith says, for you are obviously so indoctronated, you dont know what is true or Poropaganda.
     
  5. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Heres another cut and paste which your type of rhetoric deserves.

    1) Murder, rape, and pillage at Jabesh-gilead (Judges 21:10-24 )

    So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. “This is what you are to do,” they said. “Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin.” Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.

    The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, “How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God’s curse.”

    Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, “Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, ‘Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn’t find enough wives for them when we dest60royed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'” So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.

    2) Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites (Numbers 31:7-18 )

    They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

    Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. “Why have you let all the women live?” he demanded. “These are the very ones who followed Balaam’s advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD’s people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

    3) More Murder Rape and Pillage (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

    As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

    What kind of God approves of murder, rape, and slavery?

    4) Laws of Rape (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 )

    If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

    What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.

    5) Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 )

    If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

    It is clear that God doesn’t give a damn about the rape victim. He is only concerned about the violation of another mans “property”.

    6) David’s Punishment – Polygamy, Rape, Baby Killing, and God’s “Forgiveness” (2 Samuel 12:11-14 )

    Thus says the Lord: ‘I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.’

    Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” Nathan answered David: “The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die.” [The child dies seven days later.]

    This has got to be one of the sickest quotes of the Bible. God himself brings the completely innocent rape victims to the rapist. What kind of pathetic loser would do something so evil? And then he kills a child! This is sick, really sick!

    7) Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 )

    “When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive’s garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion.”

    Once again God approves of forcible rape.

    8) Rape and the Spoils of War (Judges 5:30 )

    They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera’s spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil. (Judges 5:30 )

    9) Sex Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 )

    When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 )

    10) God Assists Rape and Plunder (Zechariah 14:1-2 )

    Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 )
     
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  6. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    Do you know what the Quran 4: 157 is the nail in the coffin of the Quran?

    Q4:157Sahih International—And for their saying, ‘Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah.’ And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but another was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.

    The Quran here has an internal contradiction which no Muslim scholar can never get out of.

    If you ask a Muslim scholar, did Jesus die on the cross, they will say, never, definately not!
    Then you ask him, why did the apostles record the crucifixion?
    They answer, these people who recorded it was corrupt deceivers, and they were confused!
    I then ask, OK, so why does the Quran say these people did witness someone on the cross, resembeling Jesus, and this resemblance died looking like Jesus.
    They dont answer, and never want you to quote the rest of the verse in the Quran.

    The Quran say, Allah made a resemblance, therefore Allah deceived everyone in believing it was Jesus who died on the cross!

    Therefore the witnesses and the NT recording was true, but this Allah came 6020 years laterr and told us it was not true, Because he deceived everyone.
    Allah is therefore by his own admission, a Lier!
     
  7. Meow Mix

    Meow Mix Chatte Féministe

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    In this belief, is there a functional difference or is it "title only?" For instance is the "parent" less involved somehow if the mother (I will just use this word because I don't know how else to say it with this system) can't breastfeed the child?
     
  8. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    I
    see you refuse to debate on the Quran.
    Instead you go to the Anodated Bible, collect some "autrocities in the Bible", copy, paste, then tell me not to google.
    That is the utmost hypocricy pal!

    Anyhow, what do you say about Q 4:157?
    The mails in the coffin of Islam?
     
  9. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Not really. What you must understand is that there were times when formula was not available. In some countries in Asia they had women called "Kiri mother" which means "Milk mom". They were village ladies who will be hired to feed the baby if the mother doesnt have milk to give. Even today, this is practiced.

    Haha. I am telling you sis, that this discussion actually happened with another atheist and he honestly said "why can't they buy formula". A formula tin costs around 10 or 15 dollars. A child feeds around 8 times a day. They cannot afford one tin, be it two tins a week. Some people can't imagine there are people in this world who can't afford 100 dollars a month for the baby. People are so stuck in their world they dont even know there is another world out there. Im just telling you how people are, not associating any of this with you.

    Breast feeding is like consummating a marriage. A marriage is only considered complete when its consummated. Like that, breast feeding is considered the finalisation of a Childs adoption into the family. There are many nuances in the world adoption but cannot go into all of that. Lol. People are so obtuse they will ask "if a man has no sexual ability to consummate the marriage would you hire another man to do it instead". This question has come already, and will come in the future.

    The traditional islamic law comes with Aqal which means "reason". So people should reason it out in situations. Thats why it surprises me when people ask this kind of unreasonable questions like "will you hire another man". ;)

    So obviously, if you cannot breastfeed because you dont have milk, you find alternatives. Its the act of motherly love and the intent to nurture the child that is intended, not the necessary regulation that if a mother is unable to give milk the child is taken away or is not considered a child of the woman or family.

    Do you understand MM?
     
  10. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    As long as you cut and paste lists and not focus on one thing at a time, resorting to nonsensical language of dismissals, you will only get cut and pastes. So so far you have not said anything valid other than say a lot of things you gathered from here and there. You dont deserve decent conversation so you will only get cut and pastes. You call others hypocrites anyway since you have no knowledge on the topics you are trying to pose as educated. You can go and insult again if you please.

    I think you meant "nail". But see, what is your problem with this verse? What is the linguistic interpretation? What is the Qur'an bi Quran analysis? Just saying "nail on the coffin" is not an argument.

    I know this verse very well because of all of the pseudo scholars you love lie about it. Silly when they can't defend their doctrine or their scripture they go into the Quran to do it. Evangelism and apologetics is not scholarship mate.

    So whats your problem? If you want more cut and pastes, there are many more. If you want decent dialogue, no problem.
     
  11. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle 'Some of you humans are just so funny!'
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    What Islam sees as female rights, some versions of belief at least, don't seem to coincide with what others might want, so I wouldn't necessarily see Islam as a great champion of such.
     
  12. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Kindly give me the link from where you picked up "Anguttara Nikaya, duthiyo pannasako, magavaggo", Monier-Williams's Pali dictionary says that all the latter three words do not exist.

    I have not omitted those lines in my post. What you quote "only if you know that these who claim are that they are learned in the sciences and that they are living for the betterment, only then you should accept them and live" is not to be without inquiry, it cannot be a blind acceptance which Buddha already advised against.

    Even Buddha cannot escape that. You are free to reject what Buddha says if you do not find it correct. As I have already mentioned, I am not a Buddhist because Buddhism asks me to submit and say "Buddham Sharnam Gacchami" (I go to Buddha's refuge). No, I don't. I keep my independence.

    It says "do you think for yourself that what that person says is true? How have you arrived at this conclusion? What all things have you checked? Has that person provided sufficient proof for what he says or is he talking in the air?" One should not accept anything which does not have sufficient proof.
     
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  13. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, so at last you agree to discuss one point in the Quran which I have a huge problem with.
    Q 4:157!
    To me this is the ultimate evidence that Allah is a non existant god.
    He was made up by Muhammad, as he used the Pagan god Hubaal, and shaped Islam as he needed more support from ignorant people.

    Will you discuss Q4:157 on a thread?
    Do you think you have the intellect to show me that my observation is wrong that the NT are true, and the Quran false, when we use Q 4:157?

    Or do you concede now?
    Here and now?
     
  14. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    No worries brother. I will give you a snapshot. I dont have links.

    Screenshot 2021-07-26 at 12.13.16 PM.png
     
  15. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    God being non-existent, made up, pagan god hubaal, conceding, all of this is just showing your complex. They are not arguments.

    Whats your argument?
     
  16. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Let me ask you a question. Where did you learn what Buddha said? (Since you used that exact statement)
     
  17. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I am sorry that you do not have the link. The image does not help. I cannot even give that to Google translate. How do you think that I will be able to discuss what you say if you do not give me a proper link? I will try to scan the text and then give it to Google translate. This is what I get from Google images: https://www.google.co.in/search?tbs...FQcYhwrBpQKJyRixvJ73WrtBuUdWFy_1ONSg&hl=en-IN
     
  18. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    'Kalama Sutta/Kesamutti Sutta' does not claim to be Buddha's exact words. It starts with "So, I have heard:". But whoever said it, Buddha or one of his disciples, it is a very important advice. I wholly accept it. It was the original 'Okham's Razor'. It says what we mostly forget to check about things.
     
  19. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    That was a snapshot. How in the world will you get the same image from google image? Think practically.

    I am sorry that I dont have links. I dont think there are links anyway. If you can scan it and get the text out that's great. I dont know how I can help you with that. You can scan and do what you want or ask someone who knows the language. Its all upto you. I understand though. No problem.
     
  20. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    So what you are doing is saying "Since I accept it and sounds good, I attribute it to the Buddha, or some disciple, or anyone for that matter to authenticate it". Which means you are not even taking your own advice.

    Anyway, it does not say what you want it to say. Maybe you got that from a meme somewhere on the internet.
     
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