Jesus christ plays a key role in swallowing up death for ever.(1 corinthians 15; 24)he said that he came to earth to give his soul a ransom in exchange for many...matthew 20;28The situation is comparable to a kidnapping,in which release of the hostage can be obtained only by a specified payment. In this case the ransom that can free us from sin and death isJesus perfect human life..........Acts 10; 39-43.what a wonderful hope no more death only everlasting life in the paradise that was Gods original purpose what do others think about the ransom promise in the bible
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Death will be swallowed up forever
- Thread starter may
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Aqualung
Tasty
may said:
I'm certainly looking forward to that
But I always here Jehovah's Witnesses talking about how there will be death, termed as an everlasting cutting-off, for some people. Could you perhaps give a quick overview of what that is, because I never really understood who that applied to?for me i like to bring to peoples attention the hope of everlasting life under the prince of peace Jesus christ , this is what jesus told his disiples to tell others about......matthew 24;14 i think maybe you are refering to the Goats in the parable that Jesus spoke of in.......matthew 25;31-46 yes, Jesus did speak of ones(goats) that will not get everlasting life . i suppose these ones would not be interested in the kingdom blessingsthat Jesus has made possible for all of humans ,but that is there choicei suppose.for me, i like to make sure that i am doing my best in my imperfect state to be helping jesus to make known about the Good news of the kingdom, where eventualy there will be no more death.Aqualung said:I'm certainly looking forward to that
fromthe heart
Well-Known Member
It's a darn good thing too or you spend eternity in the eternal lake of fire unless you have accepted salvation...For by grace we are saved...but when Jesus stands at the door and knocks and you don't open it and accept His precious gift of eternal life you will go to the hottest lake ever thought of for man or beast. And there will be nashing of teeth and thirst will not be quenched...It's wonderful that Jesus Christ died for our sins so we won't have to go through all that torment...that is those who are saved won't.
JMPO!
And there will be nashing of teeth and thirst will not be quenched...It's wonderful that Jesus Christ died for our sins so we won't have to go through all that torment...that is those who are saved won't.JMPO!
well the God that i worship is not a cruel God , i feel that it is very wrong indeed to portray God as evil, the lake of fire is symbolic of everlasting destruction not litral ,as some people say , i think that the religious leaders who have taught that the lake of fire is a real place of torment will have to answer to God when he destroys false teaching . any way getting back tothe ransom which is the way of Gods salvation .this God of love has made it possible to get everlasting life back again . we all know that adam and eve lost everlasting life because of listening to satan instead of God , and now we have the chance to get everlasting life back againfromthe heart said:It's a darn good thing too or you spend eternity in the eternal lake of fire unless you have accepted salvation...For by grace we are saved...but when Jesus stands at the door and knocks and you don't open it and accept His precious gift of eternal life you will go to the hottest lake ever thought of for man or beast.
JMPO!
That is why, just as through one man (Adam)sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned(romans 5;12)we are in a dieing state but the ransom sacrifice will eliminate death foreverwe all have inherited sin from adam there is no way of getting away from it ,we all grow old and die, but thankfully that will be a think of the past when death is swallowed up forever.
For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord(romans 6;23)
as the bible is a bible that is for our day ,and many of the prophecies are now undergoing fulfillment in these last days ,i find that the watchtower is a very good magazine that leads us to look into the bible ,but i find that as with any magazine that we make use of ,it is always best to get the most upto date magazines because of where we are in the stream of time in these last days that jesus spoke of ,then we can gain more of an accurate knowledge of the bible as we see the fulfillment of bible prophecies unfolding before our eyes ,it is my belief that jehovah God is using a faithfulAqualung said:Well, okeydokey then. Maybe I'll see if I can't dig up any of our old Watchtower magazines to see if they have any further information. Thanks for your take on things!
people to reveal many things in these last days, this is also spoken of in matthew 24;45-47
Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings.....so rather than looking at out dated magazines i find it is always best to keep up to date, then we do not get left behind in the understanding of where we are in the stream of time
I wonder how you can belive that God will not punish evil, especially as you would proclaim to belive the bible. God is not evil, he is Just and will punish sin - Hell wont be pleasant. Gods punishment of sin has been demonstrated already on this earth with Christs torture and crucifixtion.may said:
Romans 3:22-26
This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
Do you belive that murders, rapist, thiefs, liars should be brought to justice if so how can you claim there is no place of torment or punishment. While i dont like the idea of eternal punishment, I know my idea of justice and righteousness is nothing compared to Gods, a perfect Holy God surly sees our sin as worse then we do.
Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars-their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."
Matthew 25:41-46
Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Luke 16:19-31
"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'
" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "
- If you regard this as only an illustration id like to know what you think it is illustrating.
2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power
I think people who teach that God will not punish sin will have to answer to God when he destroys false teaching.
http://www.carm.org/doctrine/hell.htm has more on this topic.
everlasting death is punishment, conpared to everlasting life. its a good job that only God can read hearts as to weather they are Worthy to be in the paradise on earth, with only rightous people who are willing to put them selves in line with Gods ways. no it is painting a very bad picture of God to say that he would torture people for ever . still the bible tells us that he will soon put false teaching out the way for good, any serious student of the bible is aware that the word hell just means mankinds common grave . it always amazes me how people are lead along to believe evil teachings, how hurt the true God must be to see this going on . yes there will come atime when we will have everlasting life or everlasting death but never tar God with evil thingsSteve said:
Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any to be DESTROYED but desires all to attain to repentance.....2 PETER 3;9Notice destruction not torment , torment does not even come up into the thoughts of God
I see, so why is it that so often Hell in the Bible is described as Unquenchable Fire, Fiery Hell, Eternal Fire, Eternal Punishment, Lake of Fire?may said:
This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:49-50
"And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." Rev. 20:15
"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels. Matt. 25:41
This dosnt sound like the local cemetry to me.
Also the bible makes it clear that it will be a place of Consciousness, Jesus often described it as a place with "weeping and gnashing of teeth" or "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." Rev 14:11
Again read Rev 14:11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night,....."may said:
And like i mentioned in my last post
Luke 16:19-31
"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'
" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "
- If you regard this as only an illustration id like to know what you think it is illustrating?? Afterall if Jesus used this story to warn us yet its not true that there is a place of torment does that mean you think that Jesus taught false doctrine and misrepresented Gods judgement of Sin?
regarding rev 20;15the lake of fire means the second death . the bible gives us the answer to thisSteve said:
(Revelation 21:8) But as for the cowards and those without faith and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers and fornicators and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur. This means the second death........notice this means the second death.also matthew 13;49-50i think as a bible student most people are aware that here jesus was giving an illustation ,he was refering to those who would not be part of the heavenly kingdom but they would be in spiritual darkness , in other places in the bible weeping and gnashing of teeth is refering to those who are in spiritual darkness such as these verses
(Matthew 8:12) whereas the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the darkness outside. There is where [their] weeping and the gnashing of [their] teeth will be."
(Matthew 22:13) Then the king said to his servants, Bind him hand and foot and throw him out into the darkness outside. There is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.
(Matthew 24:51) and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites. There is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.
(Luke 13:28) There is where [YOUR] weeping and the gnashing of [YOUR] teeth will be, when YOU see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves thrown outside..........yes the illustration was about the gathering of the sons of the kingdom those who would be ruling with christ in his heavenly kingdombut only the good ones would have Jehovahs blessing the others would be thrown outside in spiritual darkness ,they were refered to as good for nothing slaves
(Matthew 25:30) And throw the good-for-nothing slave out into the darkness outside. There is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be.regarding matthew 25;41
Bible students know that this cannot mean that immortal souls of goatlike ones will suffer in an eternal fire. No, for humans are souls; they do not possess immortal souls. (Genesis 2:7; Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10; Ezekiel 18:4) By sentencing the goats to everlasting fire, the Judge means destruction devoid of a future hope, which will also be the permanent end for the Devil and his demons. (Revelation 20:10, 14) so ,Jehovahs Judge sets out opposites. He tells the sheep, "Come"; the goats, "Be on your way from me." The sheep will inherit "everlasting life." The goats will receive "everlasting cutting-off."Matthew 25:46.also as all students of the bible know the book of revelation is full of symbolism so rev 14;11 when it mentions her smoke acending for ever and ever and their torment ,is refering to the torment of Jehovahs disaproval, being a book of sybolism it speaks of fire and sulphur because it will be as if they are destroyed by fire and sulpher ,in other words totaly destroyed.
The final result of the punishment will benot everlasting torment but "emptiness . . . wasteness . . . nothing." The smoke ascending to time indefinite vividly illustrates this. When a house burns down, smoke keeps coming from the ashes for some time after the flames have died down, providing onlookers with evidence that there has been a destructive conflagration.
Luke 16:19-31, which describes a rich man in a "blazing fire" of torment. The dictionary defines a "parable" as a "short fictitious story"not something that literally happens in real life. Here, Jesus was illustrating how, as a class, the religious leaders of the Jews would "die" figuratively toward having Gods favor and come into distress while alive on earthas they did on hearing Jesus proclaim his message against them. The Bible says nothing about Gods tormenting people after death in "hellfire." The idea of torment by fire is completely foreign to Jehovah God, who forthrightly condemned apostate Jews for the "detestable thing" of making "their sons and their daughters pass through the fire to Molech," the god of Ammon.Jeremiah 32:35; 2 Chronicles 28:3....yes religious leaders who teach lies today will come to their end ,as the bible fortells.just think about the people who are misled by false doctrines not based on accurate bible knowledge
The soul that is sinningit itself will die Ezekiel 18;4 no there is no litral firey place , a god of love would not do that
Teachers of hellfire eagerly point to this account as definite proof that there is indeed a hell of torment that awaits the wicked. But, in so doing, they disregard such clear and repeated Biblical statements as: "The soul that is sinningit itself will die." (Ezekiel 18:4, 20) And: "As for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all." (Ecclesiastes 9:5) Clearly these statements do not support the idea of torment for "lost souls" in a fiery hell.
The Bibles teaching about the condition of the dead therefore leaves many of Christendoms clergymen in an awkward position. The very book on which they claim to base their teachings,