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Featured Death as a proof?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Akivah, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. Akivah

    Akivah Well-Known Member

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    I've noticed that some atheists use death as a proof of G-d's non existence. I don't understand this rationale. G-d never told us that we are (or were supposed to be) eternal. Indeed death is frequently mentioned in the bible and is part of G-d's Creation.

    Even on a scientific basis, life forms need to die for a multitude of reasons, such as to provide sustenance to other life forms, to evolve, to make way for successive generations, etc.

    How does death being part of 'life' get to a conclusion that G-d doesn't exist?
     
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  2. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    the bible doesn't teach that the person is eternal. it teaches that life is eternal. that form that the life takes is ever evolving. life isn't a destination. it's a journey, a never ending journey.

    Matthew 8:20
    Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

    The Spirit cannot be created, or destroyed, it simply transforms, or saved as another state of matter. Like the butterfly effect, or chaos theory. Cast your bread upon the waters after many days it returns.

    Like wind,

    Ecclesiastes 1:6
    The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course.

    Like water,

    Ecclesiastes 1:7
    All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again.


    maitreya

     
  3. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    Yeah, the argument is a bit odd, and gets straight up absurd once we start looking at polytheistic religions. In such religions, death is inevitably one of the gods, or an aspect of one of the gods. If we apply the logic of "death exists, therefore there is no God" to a polytheistic context it ends up becoming "death does not exist." :sweat:

    Obviously, such an implication is not intentional (at least I hope it isn't), but I can't say I really see this argument being made by non-theists. Where did you run across this?
     
  4. Laika

    Laika Well-Known Member
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    As far as I know, it doesn't and I haven't heard an atheist make an explicit connection between the two. It would not appear very logical as "death" is not a logical cause for "atheism". My views on atheism are not representative of most atheists on the forum though, so we'll see if anyone else says something along these lines.

    However, atheism" can have consequences on our view of death. Without a belief in the soul and the possibility of an afterlife, it can lead to wider reflection about secular responses to death by atheists. This raises a variety of questions about the meaning and nature of individual existence. This is more of a response of atheists to our mortality rather than a reason to become atheists.
     
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  5. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
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    I disagee with your interpretation (according to Christian scripture) other than one's body:

    17 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
    2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
    3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

    Moses was still Moses and Elijah is still Elijah and I will still be me but with a new body
     
  6. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    people's bodies are transformed constantly as they mature. more so as they mature spiritually.



    eutress

    vs

    distress causes physical changes in the body as pain and suffering, or dis-ease.


    change is death to something old becoming renewed again.

    jesus changed and suppressed his ego to elevate god's will
     
  7. ImmortalFlame

    ImmortalFlame Well-Known Member

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    When?

    I mean, I've seen atheists use suffering as proof of the non-existence of an omnipotent, benevolent God, but I've never heard an atheist say that death disproves the existence of God.
     
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  8. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    As an atheist, I find that to be a horrible argument.
     
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  9. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    I've never heard that argument either. Which is not to say it doesn't exist, but I haven't come across it.
    I have heard what @ImmortalFlame pointed out.

    The closest thing I can think of is an argument that the world was never intended to be without death as some believe was the case pre fall in Eden, because of everything surrounding the anatomy of carnivores. Like the lion eating hay argument.
     
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  10. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Windmills of your mind

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    I guess some atheist feel they know eternal life doesnt exist because they see the physical body in ashes. Its an assumption of translating physical death as a means of no spirit or soul existing-well, one that can be proven exists outside of any religion and faith.

    Death is just a transition. Everything cycles in one form or another. God is permenant. Matter is constantly moving never solid. God doesnt change. Matter moves and forms all the time. I honestly dont see the connection between gods existence and death. This atheist never met any ither atheist who had thst view. But then all atheist I know dont care.
     
  11. Jeremiahcp

    Jeremiahcp Well-Known Jerk

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    "How does death being part of 'life' get to a conclusion that G-d doesn't exist?"

    If death is final then the question of gods becomes trivial and irrelevant. Anything that has no impact on your life or your death effectively does not exist.
     
  12. Jeremiahcp

    Jeremiahcp Well-Known Jerk

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    On a similar note life after death would not prove gods exist.
     
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  13. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    If I lived forever, I couldn't afford the taxes.
     
  14. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    And I hear your wife said "Thank God!!!"?
     
  15. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    Don't know of any atheists who use this as a "proof" of God's non-existence. Come to think of it, I don't know any atheists who believe God's non-existance can be "proven."
     
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  16. idav

    idav Being
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    There is an argument on this YouTube if you can watch it l, at 2:30 roughly.


    One of the talkers said, evidence against a god is that consiousness cannot exist apart from the brain, and he said we don't have any evidence otherwise.
     
  17. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    If we back up and pause to reflect I find God did offer Adam and Eve everlasting life on Earth.
    Enemy death would Not enter into the picture for humans as long as humans kept God's Law.
    Since there were only two (2) humans alive on Earth and both broke God's Law they lost their healthy lives at that time. In other words, from the point of breaking God's Law their bodies began the dying process.
    Since they could No longer produce or reproduce healthy humans is why we inherited that dying process from them.
    Isaiah 25:8 believed the time would come when that dying process for humans would come to a final end.
    Since we are innocent of what father Adam did is why God made provision for us that the time would come when the dying process on Earth would cease for righteous humans. I also find at Genesis 1:28 it is God's purpose that once Earth was full ( populated Not over populated ) that reproduction would cease ( at least here on Earth ).
     
  18. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find the ^ above ^ is Not evidence against God, but evidence against false teachings about God and His Bible.
    I find what the Bible really teaches is that the dead know nothing according to Ecclesiastes 9:5.
    If the dead knew things there would be No need for a resurrection.
    The Bible teaches ' resurrection ' Not afterlife ( being more alive at death then before death ).
    If a person was conscious or alive there would be No need for a resurrection - Acts of the Apostles 24:15
     
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  19. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    Never heard that one. Where did you get it from?
     
  20. area28

    area28 Member

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    Everything dies ...its a consequence of being born
    What does it have to do with God ?
    I've never met an atheist that made a lot of sense
     
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