Dayton Shooters Friend Lied On ATF Paperwork, Now Faces Federal Charges

[Stanyon]

ATF form 4473, this is filled out with every gun purchase at gun shops, you will not be able to purchase one if you don't, this is also accompanied by background check to see if convicted felon or listed as a domestic abuser etc. You will not be able to purchase the firearm and can be prosecuted for attempting to while lying on the form.

Link to form
Firearms Transaction Record

Section 11 e

e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medical or recreational purposes in the state you reside.

The bolded part is very important to know since many states are decriminalizing marijuana, according to the Federal government it doesn't matter, they still consider it illegal.


"The 24-year-old allowed agents to search his home, where they smelled marijuana and saw a water pipe, commonly used to consume cannabis, and a Draco pistol, the affidavit says.
Agents interviewed Kollie again, this time at his place of employment, on Thursday. During that interview, Kollie told agents he had done hard drugs, marijuana and LSD with Betts several times a week between 2014 and 2015, the affidavit says.
He also told agents that he had smoked marijuana every day for the past decade, according to the affidavit.
When Kollie filled out the ATF paperwork to obtain the Draco pistol in May, the affidavit says, he checked the "no" box when asked whether he had been a regular user of marijuana or any other controlled substance."
source:
Friend who provided Dayton shooter with 100-round magazine and body armor faces federal charges - CNN

 

[Shad]

Oh look criminals do not follow laws. Shocking.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Sure, mass shootings are a problem, but let's focus on the real problem, recreational marijuana!

 

[Stanyon]

Sure, mass shootings are a problem, but let's focus on the real problem, recreational marijuana!

You are the only one that is saying that, it was neither said nor implied by me, the article, or anyone else. Interesting spin!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Since when is weed a "hard drug"?

 

[Stanyon]

Since when is weed a "hard drug"?

I think you misread the article, LSD and magic mushrooms are also considered soft drugs as they don't cause a physical addiction. It appears he admitted to using hard drugs which can cause a physical addiction that includes a wide variety of substances like meth, oxycontine etc. It seems he was including marijuana and LSD as an afterthought separating them from "hard drugs"

"Agents interviewed Kollie again, this time at his place of employment, on Thursday. During that interview, Kollie told agents he had done hard drugs, marijuana and LSD with Betts several times a week between 2014 and 2015, the affidavit says."

I am not blaming any drugs for anything but they may have been a factor in the mindset of the shooter himself and at what point do you ask a friend "what the f*** are you going to do with this body armour, AR-15 we assembled, and a 100 round dual drum and why am I buying and storing this for you so it is hidden from your parents?" at some point wouldn't you ask a friend why? (btw he was cleared of any involvement in planning or carrying out the attack)

It also shows that there is a system in place and people will be held accountable, the reason I posted the link to the ATF form 4473 is to help inform people that may very well not know what is involved in the legal transfer of firearms since many that knee jerk seem to have very little idea as to the processes that are already in place. I actually encourage people to go through the process for educational purposes for first hand experience or at the very least explore the ATF site itself to see what actually is in place.

 

[Thief]

a catch 22
damn if you do.....damn if you don't

so now a history of recreation with drugs
makes you a target

even if you don't pull the trigger

 

[Father Heathen]

Oh look criminals do not follow laws. Shocking.

Might as well do away with laws entirely, then?

 

[Sunstone]

Oh look criminals do not follow laws. Shocking.

Excellent! You have just demonstrated superb skill at mindlessly parroting the NRA.

Now try thinking, Shad. Let's see if you can pull thinking off as well as you do parroting.

 

[shmogie]

W

Oh look criminals do not follow laws. Shocking.

What we need is more laws for them not to follow.

 

[shmogie]

Excellent! You have just demonstrated superb skill at mindlessly parroting the NRA.

Now try thinking, Shad. Let's see if you can pull thinking off as well as you do parroting.

LOL. Criminals don´t follow laws is a surprising statement to you, promulgated by the NRA ?

Do you think criminals do follow laws ? What makes them criminals ?

You try thinking, so far it is rather muddled. And no, there is not an NRA member under your bed, no need to check.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

a catch 22
damn if you do.....damn if you don't

so now a history of recreation with drugs
makes you a target

even if you don't pull the trigger

I would say lying on a federal form makes you a target.

 

[Shad]

Might as well do away with laws entirely, then?

Nope. Just that people will break the law without blinking.

Excellent! You have just demonstrated superb skill at mindlessly parroting the NRA.

Yawn. Nice rhetoric you have there.

Now try thinking, Shad. Let's see if you can pull thinking off as well as you do parroting.

Yawn. Stop trying to shift your burden to me. After all you are part of the group that thinks criminals follow laws.

 

[Shad]

W

What we need is more laws for them not to follow.

No no. We need to subject everyone to lie detector tests and mandatory drug screening. That will fix it!

 

[Twilight Hue]

W

What we need is more laws for them not to follow.

They're trying hard to do exactly that.

The only law I like to see is a safety and training course before you can own a firearm. Here in New York it's so screwed up. When I went in for a pistol permit I discovered I couldn't even touch the weapons on the table as touching one would be considered a felony even in training in my jurisdiction! To circumvent that I could go to the county and apply for a permit to physically handle the gun for training purposes. That's New York for you though.

 

[Revoltingest]

I would say lying on a federal form makes you a target.

Aye, this is actually a rather sneaky tactic.
Government is always requiring signing documents wherein you affirm many
seemingly insignificant things, eg, 100% accuracy on a tax form, no drug use.
Normally, these things are minor in isolation. But if ever government really
wants to get you for something not quite illegal, then you can be prosecuted
for lying on the form.

 

[Thief]

I would say lying on a federal form makes you a target.

granted

but apparently....Uncle Sam will back track on the ownership

I sure hope the gun I sold to my brother
never turns up

it was stolen from him

and I PRAY he had the good sense to report that

otherwise it could turn up some place...….awkward

and still have my name on it

 

[shmogie]

They're trying hard to do exactly that.

The only law I like to see is a safety and training course before you can own a firearm. Here in New York it's so screwed up. When I went in for a pistol permit I discovered I couldn't even touch the weapons on the table as touching one would be considered a felony even in training in my jurisdiction! To circumvent that I could go to the county and apply for a permit to physically handle the gun for training purposes. That's New York for you though.

Gads ! Do these permits cost $ ? When you say ¨pistol permit¨ is that just to own one ??

In Arizona where I live, the only permit required to own and carry a pistol open or concealed is the US Constitution.

Of course the West has always had a different view on things like this.

There is a push here though for a so called ¨red flag¨ law. Where a **** offed neighbor can falsely accuse you of threatening him, and the cops come and take your guns.

The government can arbitrarily take your property with no due process. Kinda flies in the face of the Constitution.

In the old days, we would take a gun away from a drunk, and when he/she ( yes, I was almost shot by a drunk woman) sobered up, they came to the station and after a stern talking to, they got their gun back.

Unless the law is very careful to follow the Constitution, Arizonans will reject it.

 

[shmogie]

Aye, this is actually a rather sneaky tactic.
Government is always requiring signing documents wherein you affirm many
seemingly insignificant things, eg, 100% accuracy on a tax form, no drug use.
Normally, these things are minor in isolation. But if ever government really
wants to get you for something not quite illegal, then you can be prosecuted
for lying on the form.

If you saw a psychologist 25 years ago, 4 times, because you were depressed over the loss of a child, do you check the ḧave you ever been treated for mental illness¨box yes ? Guaranteeing you will not pass the check, and not get your firearm ?

 

[Spirit of Light]

ATF form 4473, this is filled out with every gun purchase at gun shops, you will not be able to purchase one if you don't, this is also accompanied by background check to see if convicted felon or listed as a domestic abuser etc. You will not be able to purchase the firearm and can be prosecuted for attempting to while lying on the form.

Link to form
Firearms Transaction Record

Section 11 e

e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?
Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medical or recreational purposes in the state you reside.

The bolded part is very important to know since many states are decriminalizing marijuana, according to the Federal government it doesn't matter, they still consider it illegal.


"The 24-year-old allowed agents to search his home, where they smelled marijuana and saw a water pipe, commonly used to consume cannabis, and a Draco pistol, the affidavit says.
Agents interviewed Kollie again, this time at his place of employment, on Thursday. During that interview, Kollie told agents he had done hard drugs, marijuana and LSD with Betts several times a week between 2014 and 2015, the affidavit says.
He also told agents that he had smoked marijuana every day for the past decade, according to the affidavit.
When Kollie filled out the ATF paperwork to obtain the Draco pistol in May, the affidavit says, he checked the "no" box when asked whether he had been a regular user of marijuana or any other controlled substance."
source:
Friend who provided Dayton shooter with 100-round magazine and body armor faces federal charges - CNN

Since he lied to gain access to weapons it is good the caught him, so he never can gain weapons legally again. Unfortunately, he still can get it on the black market.
And all the rest of the guys who helped the shooter should get hard time in jail too