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Day of Preparation?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by 2ndpillar, Feb 13, 2018.

  1. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Day of Preparation?

    As the Day of Preparation is coming up (end of March), and it is the throwing out of the leaven/hypocrisy, prior to the Passover, which is the flying over of the angel of death, maybe it would be wise to throw out the leaven of the Pharisees prior to this next Passover. If you leave a little leaven with the wheat, it will ruin the whole loaf. That is the case with leaving the drivel of the Pharisee Paul, the “tare seed” (Matthew 13), with the “good seed”, which is the ”word of the kingdom” (Matthew 13:19), in the same “field” (Matthew 13:24-25).

    Just saying. The tares are “gathered up” “first” (Matthew 13:30), bundled, and thrown into the fire. You might not want to be associated with that crowd.
     
  2. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Then also take into account John is fabricated; well done on spotting Simon the stone (petros) and Paul.

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
  3. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    The corruptive action of leaven was an apt symbol of the evil 'dispositions' of the Pharisees
    toward Jesus and the disciples of Jesus are warned against sharing thse attitudes.
     
  4. Akivah

    Akivah Well-Known Member

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    There is no such thing as the Day of Preparation before Passover in Judaism. Perhaps you meant Elul, which is sometimes called the month of preparation?

    Also, the Pharisees were the holy, the devout. If anything we should follow their example of being better Jews.
     
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  5. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    I am sorry, I do not know Hebrew, and only have an English language bible.

    Numbers 28:16-17: “On the fourteenth day of the first month is the Passover of the LORD. And on the fifteenth day of this month is the feast; unleavened bread shall be eaten for seven days”.

    Per Ex 12:29, the LORD struck the firstborn of Egypt on the night of the angel of death, and verse 30, the Pharaoh rose up in the night, which was after the angel of death past over, which is after the blood of the lamb was placed on the lentil. Per verse 34-37, the Israelites took their dough, before it was leavened, and bound it up. The Israelites went out of Egypt late on the 15th of Abib, which would be the feast day, the 15th. Numbers 28:16, “Then on the fourteenth day of the first month shall be the LORD’s Passover”. “And on the fifteenth day of this month shall be a feast, unleavened bread shall be eaten for seven days”. The preparation of getting the lamb without blemish started on the 10th, not a month previous. The suggestion of throwing out the “hypocrisy” (Talmud) of the Pharisees, or Sadducees, as soon as possible, has no downside that I can see. I took the expression “Preparation day for the Passover” from John 19:14, which is probably not kosher for the Jews. I should have written the OP with more focus on the Jewish point of view. But the fact remains, that the judges, the Pharisees, will be replaced per Isaiah 1:26, and per Yeshua, their “hypocrisy” was identified with the leaven of the week of unleavened bread.

    As for the Pharisees, they, like the “scribes”, had much to be desired. The “pen of the scribes” was referred to as “a lie” (Jeremiah 8:8), and the scribes wrote the Talmud for the Pharisees. If the Pharisees pursued “justice” then why are they to be replaced? “I will restore your judges as at the first”? (Isaiah 1:26)

    As for the restoration of Judah and Jerusalem, that was finished after the 1967 war. As for the restoration of all of Israel, which would include the stick of Israel combined with the stick of Judah (Ezekiel 37:15-27), that will not happen until Hosea 3:5 in which after Hosea stays with the “adulteress”/Gentiles for “many days”, who was bought for the equivalence of 30 shekels of silver, “the sons of Israel will return and seek the LORD their God and David their king; and they will come trembling to the LORD and to His goodness in the last days”. That has not happened, and “the house of Israel” remains “scattered among the nations” (Ezekiel 36:22-28). The “awesome day of the LORD” is still in the wings (Joel 2:31-32), but just behind the door. It will be much like the passing over of the angel of death. One had better close their door at that time (Isaiah 26:20), or with respect to those in Jerusalem/Judea, flee to the mountains (Joel 2:32) & (Matthew 24:16). It would also be wise to get rid of the leaven of hypocrisy. In the future, I will try and be more inclusive of the Jewish point of view.


    New American Standard Bible Jeremiah 8:8
    "How can you say, 'We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie.

    New American Standard Bible John 19:14
    Now it was the day of preparation for the Passover; it was about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews, "Behold, your King!"

    New American Standard Bible Isaiah 26:20
    Come, my people, enter into your rooms And close your doors behind you; Hide for a little while Until indignation runs its course.
     
  6. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The leaven of the Pharisees was with respect to their "hypocrisy" (Matthew 16:11).


    Matthew 16:11
    How can you not understand that I was not telling you about bread? But beware of the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees."
     
  7. Akivah

    Akivah Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that will be the cause of many differences between your Christian beliefs and my Jewish ones.

    My bible reads:
    In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, [you shall offer up] a Passover offering to the Lord. On the fifteenth day of this month, a festival [begins]; you shall eat unleavened bread for seven days.

    Passover is eight days long. Obviously when a Passover offering is made, that is the start of Passover. Then the festival commences the next day. The festival is not the offering, but both are included in the Passover holiday. I don't see any sense in assuming that a Passover offering is made when it is not Passover. Your fictitious day of preparation would require a Passover offering on the 13th day, before Passover starts.

    Yes, the actual passover event is the first day of passover and the seven days of the festival is also the passover.

    You got that right. Using Christian sources to explain Judaism is an automatic fail.

    That's nice of you to try. Remember to get our POV from Jewish sources or you'll never get it right. The 1914 Jewish bible (which is everywhere on the web) doesn't count since it was based on the christian bible. No mainstream authorities in Judaism use it. Here's a good one to use.
    Berei**** - Genesis - Chapter 1 (Parshah Berei****)
     
  8. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Passover is the 14th, and the feast of unleavened bread starts on the 15th and last for 7 days. The total is 8 days. The Preparation day, the day of preparation for the feast, would be the day before the feast of unleavened bread begins, The Passover meal would be at the end of that day, the evening. The Passover lamb would be sacrificed between the two evenings, during the day of the 14th, which is the Preparation day, when one also gets rid of the leaven. The Word of God, the Law and the prophets, is undefiled. It is the additions, such as the writings of the Pharisees, which are dubious, and if not in line with the Law and the prophets, they are of the darkness (Isaiah 8:20).
     
  9. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    There is no holiday called "Passover" in the Torah. That's a much later name for the holiday on which the Passover sacrifice is eaten. The Torah relates that holiday to eating unleavened bread and the spring. I say "relates" because the Torah doesn't give names for holidays. Actually the Torah doesn't give names for anything on the calendar: days, months and years are "named" by number. All three holidays are simply called "festival", the Torah distinguishes them by adding an identifying feature of the holiday to the word, ie. "festival of booths (the festival when booths are made)", "festival of unleavened bread (the festival when unleavened bread is eaten)".

    Hence, Num. 28:16 isn't telling you when the holiday of Passover is, because there was no such holiday by that name at the time the verse was written. The word pesaḥ (Passover) only ever refers to the Paschal offering unless joined to the word "festival". Therefore the verse is saying that on the 14th of the month, we are to bring the Paschal lamb as a sacrifice. The 14th of the month has no name. It is not called Passover in the Torah, nor is it the holiday that would later come to be called Passover. The 14th of the month isn't a holiday at all. On this day, preparations were made for the upcoming holiday. For instance, Ex. 23:18 requires that there be no leavened bread around at the time the Passover sacrifice was sacrificed, so it all needed to be cleared out on this day. This is preparation for the upcoming festival where only unleavened bread may be eaten. It's also not called "Preparation Day", this appears to be a modern interpretation of the Greek παρασκευή, which simply means preparation, not Preparation Day.

    The Passover offering was eaten on the night of the 15th (that is, the night following the 14th day), which is the beginning of the holiday that we have come to call Passover also known as the Festival of Unleavened Bread.

    It is the additions, such as the writings of the NT, which are dubious, and if not in line with the Law and the prophets, they are of the darkness (Isaiah 8:20).
     
  10. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Christ Jesus himself chose Paul, to take the gospel news to the Gentiles.

    It is written in the book of Jude Verse 8 --"Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil dignities"

    This is what your doing, When you speak evil against the dignities that Christ himself has chosen, Therefore When you speak against Paul, your speaking against Christ himself.

    There are many witnesses to the fact that Paul was chosen by Christ himself.

    all the other disciples accepted Paul, so who are you to go about condemning what Christ has chosen.
    I would look where your walking, you sound more like a tare yourself.
     
    #10 Faithofchristian, Feb 15, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  11. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Certainly, any writings not in line with the Law and the prophets are of the darkness, which would include the NT and the Talmud. To be fair to the apostles of the NT, they also referred to the 14th as a day of preparation, and not Preparation day. Just the same, it was a day for preparation for the 15th, in which one must throw out the leaven before the 15th. The 14th, was not a “festival” or high holy day, and preparations could be made. To be fair to me, the English version of Numbers 28:16-17, is :”On the fourteenth day of the first month is the Passover of the LORD”, or other versions “the LORD’s Passover”. The Jewish version, which I was just given a link, is somewhat similar, if not exactly the same: 16In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, [you shall offer up] a Passover offering to the Lord. (Bamidbar) It better reflects your post, but your post does not reflect the fact that the Jews also seem to refer to the week as Passover week, whereas the Feast is the Feast of Unleavened bread.

    The point of the OP, was that the “Law and the prophets” represents the bread of life, and one must not mix it with the leaven/”hypocrisy” of the Pharisees, such as the self proclaimed Pharisee of Pharisees, the self proclaimed apostle Paul. That leaven/hypocrisy would not be restricted to just the Pharisee Paul.

    New American Standard Bible Mt 27:62
    Now on the next day, the day after the preparation, the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered together with Pilate,

    John 19:14
    It was the day of Preparation for the Passover, about the sixth hour. And Pilate said to the Jews, "Here is your King!"
     
  12. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    I think you are confusing the self witnessing of Paul, and the parroting of Paul by his associates, and the unknown author of 2 Peter, with “other disciples”. With respect to Paul being chosen to “take the gospel news to the Gentiles”, Paul preached his own gospel, which was antithetical to the “word of the kingdom” , and according to the NT, which was canonized and published by the “daughter of Babylon”, via Matthew 28:19, the disciples were the one’s supposed to “make disciples of all the nations”. According Acts 15:7, it was Peter who supposedly said he was to go to the Gentiles. You need to get your stories straight.
     
  13. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    You need to quit nitpicking about the verses in the book of Acts, and back up to the beginning of Acts chapter 15, if you had you would found that not only did Peter, but also all the other disciples and the elders of Jerusalem agreed to sent Paul and Barnabas to the Gentiles.

    Now if to what your saying, to be right about Paul, Now why would Peter want to send Paul to the Gentiles to give them, what Peter and the other disciples and elders agreed upon to the Gentiles.

    All your doing is picking out one Verse and trying to build a mountain out of it,
    Instead of backing to the beginning of Acts Chapter 15, and find out, that Peter and all the other disciples and the elders agreed to send Paul and Barnabas to the Gentiles what they all agreed on.

    Note also Acts Chapter 9 Verses 10--17, That Christ Jesus speaking to Ananias the Prophet, saying that Paul is a chosen vessel unto him.
    And then in Verse 17, Ananias the Prophet saying to Paul, The Lord , even Jesus that appeared unto you in the way, you came, has sent me to you.

    What your trying to do is, take what Peter said in Acts 15;7, that Peter words over ride, what Christ Jesus said in Chapter 9 about Paul.

    Are you trying to exalt Peter above Christ Jesus, because that's exactly what your trying to do.

    When you take what Peter said, and then exalt his words above what Christ Jesus said about Paul being a chosen vessel unto him.to go the Gentiles. In Acts 9:10--17.
    Remember that Paul's sir name was Saul, until Christ Jesus the Lord had change it to Paul.

    Maybe your the one that really needs to back at the beginning of Acts Chapter 15 and get your story straight.

    Instead of adding your words.

    So you would have to answer as to why would Peter and all the disciples and the elders agree to send Paul to the Gentiles, if Paul is to what your saying, That Paul is evil.

    Which doesn't make any sense at all.

    Your saying Paul is evil, but yet Peter and all the disciples and elders agree to send Paul to the Gentiles.
    You really got to kidding.
    I think you really need to rethink that one.

    And get your story straight.
     
    #13 Faithofchristian, Feb 15, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  14. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    I think you are getting your Ananiases mixed up. The only anointed Ananias, would be the chief priest, who condemned Yeshua to death. Certainly, you are not talking about the Ananias who lied to the Spirit of God, and was struck down dead. As for quoting from Acts, written by some unknown writer, most probably Paul’s associate Luke, keep in mind that Luke witnessed nothing according to Luke 1:1-3, which would make his statements not able to confirm any matter (Matthew 18:16) & (Dt 19:15).

    As for Saul’s new name, Paul, it means little, and seeing as Paul is “foremost” in all things, including being the “foremost sinner”, the foremost of “little” is “least”. In the kingdom of heaven, they call those who “annuls one of the least of these commandments”…… “least”.(Matthew 5:19).

    And Paul isn’t per say, “evil”, he is much like Judas Iscariot (Zechariah 11:13), just fulfilling the Law and the prophets (Zechariah 11:4-10). That his “demon spirit” is now “gathering the kings of the whole world” to Har-Magedon (Revelation 16:13-19) & (Zechariah 14:1-3), is only a testament to his efforts to lead the "many" to "destruction". (Matthew 7:13). As with the dragon/ Satan, Paul’s father, Paul is necessary in fulfilling Scripture. He might be more appropriately called the man of lawlessness, or simply the false prophet.
     
  15. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    No think your getting Ananias the Prophet, mix up with Ananias the high Priest.

    There are two Ananias, one being a disciple of Christ, and the other Ananias the high Priest.
     
    #15 Faithofchristian, Feb 15, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  16. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    And where exactly is "Ananias the Prophet", pray tell?
     
  17. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    I ment Ananias the Disciple. And Ananias the high Priest.so there are still two Ananias in the book of Acts.

    Ananias the high Priest is found in
    Acts 23:2.
    Ananias the Disciple is found in
    Acts 9:10.
     
  18. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Neither of those are prophets, other than the sense that the "high priest" is anointed, and he prophesized that one should die for the many. He would not be the Ananias "the disciple" from Damascus. You still need to get your stories straight.
     
  19. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Many of the people who were with James apparently were former Pharisees as well. You have little real cause to pin all Jesus' anti-pharisee preaching on Paul.
     
  20. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Yeshua’s complaint about the Pharisees was their “hypocrisy”. Perfect case in point, being Romans 7:25. Perfect case in point for Paul being lawless, and supposedly “released from the Law” would be Romans 7:6. Perfect case in point of his double mindedness would be 1 Corinthians 9:20-21, whereas Paul is a Jew to the Jews, and a Gentile to Gentiles. And now you wonder why there are 38,000 different sects of the “Christian Church”. Paul is the father of politicians, all things to all men, and true to none.

    As for you apparently trying to tie James to the Pharisees through Peter, Peter is simply the “worthless shepherd” of Zechariah 11:16-17, whose living heir, the pope, still does not feed, care, or tend the sheep.
     
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