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David Chalmers "hard problem" of consciousness

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by Landon Caeli, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    #1 Landon Caeli, Jun 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  2. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    Is conciousness "fundamental"..?
    ...Like space, time, mass, electromagnetism, etc?
     
  3. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    Is panpsychism a possibility in explainimg consciousness as a "universal" quality?
     
  4. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Yes and no way too really prove it.
     
  5. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    Personally, I have for a long time, believed that the conscious human mind is comparable to being like the diamonds of the universe. I believe we are the diamonds of everything.
     
  6. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    A mathematical system has been proposed by Giulio Tononi called the
    information integration theory of consciousness.

    Google Scholar

     
  7. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    I believe the significance of why certain mutations occur in the evolutionary process is also a result of information integration -which as a result, life has developed the ability to take flight at least 7 different times in species completely unrelated and independent from one another.

    Also, the random mutation of a giraffes neck by one centimeter would have offered an advantage through natural selection -- but to mutate a centimeter further, and then again and then again, and then again, and then again, and again and so on, in the exact same successful direction, means that these multitudes of random mutations seem less random and more integrated by some sort of universal information being transferred.

    Toward a theory of multilevel evolution: long-term information integration shapes the mutational landscape and enhances evolvability. - PubMed - NCBI
     
  8. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Mostly coal. With some diamonds!
     
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  9. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    That ls assuming math exists outside independent of consciousness. Bit magical thinking but hey normal
     
  10. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    ...I believe the best way to approach understanding life, itself, is to begin with the conscious human mind -the diamond itself. This is sort of a reverse approach.
     
  11. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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    My spiritual philosophy of Advaita says it is fundamental. And space, time, mass, electromagnetism are actually derivatives of the fundamental (Consciousness/God/Brahman).
     
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  12. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    When i read proofs for the existence of God by the likes of Aristotle, Leibnitz, Aquinas i get the sense that what they are instead proving is that there is an eternal realm of necessary mind, heart, and will from which all reality flows from.

    And when i consider this eternal realm i cannot help but think it is far from ideal because of the savage nature of life on earth.

    But the concept of morality is a logical necessity; if one desires a quality of life one must uphold virtue and expect virtue from all others otherwise there is no quality of life. Thus morality is a logical necessity of life. And to love virtue is to love life itself. From the logical necessity of morality i can derive perhaps an ultimate reality of such ideal goodness.

    My logic is that mind can only come from mind, thus mind is eternal. If mind is eternal, then a logical realm of the eternal must exist.

    Without all these proofs then reason itself is doomed to be a failure, and rationality goes out the window. Reality must be intelligible for the rules of logic to be effectively valuable.
     
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  13. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    I would study up on animated matter first. It's fascinating and fun stuff.

    My basic premise would be if you had nothing by way of stimulus, you would not be conscious as an organism. It seems Consciousness rides on the amazing ability cells and organic matter 'communicates' making Consciousness multifaceted and not entirely centralized.
     
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  14. siti

    siti Well-Known Member

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    No - that's why its a hard problem.
     
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  15. wellwisher

    wellwisher Active Member

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    Consciousness has a connection to entropy. Neurons use the lion's share of their metabolic energy pumping and exchanging cations. Neurons, like all cells, concentrate sodium ions on the outside of the cell membrane and potassium ions on the inside of the cell membrane. Neurons do this to the extreme, compared to all the other cells, using about 90% of their energy for this task.

    This energy intensive action lowers the entropy of these two cations. If the ion pumping and exchange suddenly stopped, these segregated ions would slowly increase entropy, reverse, and blend until equal concentrations are reached on both sides of the membrane. This is the direction of maximum entropy. The neuron forces the ion entropy to go the wrong way; a constant energy intensive reduction of entropy.

    If you look at all our sensory systems, their signals, into the brain, will cause neurons to fire. The firing of neurons increases the entropy of these cations by allow them to blend. Therefore, all sensory systems serve the needs of the second law. Our instinct to use our sensory systems to interact with the environment is there to increase entropy. Once the neuron fires, the neuron will again pump cations and reset the lowered entropy state of the neuron.

    Consciousness is that awareness of the continuity, that is called "ourself", as it exists within a constant flux of change. Both conditions form at the neurons. The neuron reset after firing brings the neurons back to a base continuity. While sensory input to the brain, by increasing entropy results in change and complexity.

    The building of memory is part of the second law which states that net entropy has to increase. We remain the same, but with new features added, by the flux of change; memory.

    There is another feature connected to water. Sodium and Potassium ions, although both of a single positive charge, each impact water differently. Sodium ions are kosmotropic while Potassium ions are chaotropic. Sodium adds more order to water than pure water and Potassium adds more disorder to water than pure water.

    Since water is about 85% of the body and this water is continuous and everywhere, including the brain, body and all cells, water is the great integrator, with the ionic tweaks of the brain, due to neuron firing and neuron reset, oscillating the base integration; consciousness.
     
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