Darwinism or Theism (is there a political slant too)?

[shunyadragon]

This is a winner, but needs to separated out by [ quote] . . . [/quote ]

 

[Kenny]

Abraham L.... he was racist, s.

Could you provide documentation rather than just making statements?

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Darwin & Lincoln were born SAME day but had OPPOSITE views of Man made in Image of Creator!

Excerps:

Karl Marx wrote to Lassalle, January 16, 1861:

" Darwin's book is very important and serves me as a basis in natural selection for the class struggle in history."

Karl Marx dedicated a personal copy his book, Das Kapital, to Charles Darwin, inscribing that he was a "sincere admirer" of Darwin.

Darwin continued:

"Civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace the savage races throughout the world ...

The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilized state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla."

Sanger founded a 501(c)3 called Planned Parenthood.

Sanger began a "Negro Project" in 1939 to reduce the African-American population. Her racist views are seen in statements, such as:

"The lower down in the scale of human development we go the less sexual control we find. It is said the aboriginal Australian, the lowest known species of the human family, just a step higher than the chimpanzee in brain development."

Joseph Stalin stated of the Soviet state-controlled "common core" type indoctrination:

"There are three things that we do to disabuse the minds of our seminary students. We had to teach them the age of the earth, the geologic origin, and Darwin's teachings."

Darwin influenced Mao Zedong who stated:

"Chinese socialism is founded upon Darwinand the theory of evolution."








Franklin D. Roosevelt stated January 6, 1942:

"Our enemies are guided by ... unholy contempt for the human race.

We are inspired by a faith that goes back through all the years to the first chapter of the Book of Genesis: "God created man in His own image."

So some evil dictators believed in social darwinism.....your point?

Darwin & Lincoln were born SAME day but had OPPOSITE views of Man made in Image of Creator!

Excerps:

Karl Marx wrote to Lassalle, January 16, 1861:

" Darwin's book is very important and serves me as a basis in natural selection for the class struggle in history."

Karl Marx dedicated a personal copy his book, Das Kapital, to Charles Darwin, inscribing that he was a "sincere admirer" of Darwin.

Darwin continued:

"Civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace the savage races throughout the world ...

The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilized state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla."

Sanger founded a 501(c)3 called Planned Parenthood.

Sanger began a "Negro Project" in 1939 to reduce the African-American population. Her racist views are seen in statements, such as:

"The lower down in the scale of human development we go the less sexual control we find. It is said the aboriginal Australian, the lowest known species of the human family, just a step higher than the chimpanzee in brain development."

Joseph Stalin stated of the Soviet state-controlled "common core" type indoctrination:

"There are three things that we do to disabuse the minds of our seminary students. We had to teach them the age of the earth, the geologic origin, and Darwin's teachings."

Darwin influenced Mao Zedong who stated:

"Chinese socialism is founded upon Darwinand the theory of evolution."








Franklin D. Roosevelt stated January 6, 1942:

"Our enemies are guided by ... unholy contempt for the human race.

We are inspired by a faith that goes back through all the years to the first chapter of the Book of Genesis: "God created man in His own image."

I couldn't care less about the politics of Darwinism. 100% irrelevant to the fact of the evolution of living organisms.

 

[columbus]

Could you provide documentation rather than just making statements?

“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people;

From a debate with Stephen Douglas in 1858.
Racist Quote by Abe Lincoln (Happy Black History Month!)
Tom

 

[Kenny]

From a debate with Stephen Douglas in 1858.
Racist Quote by Abe Lincoln (Happy Black History Month!)
Tom

Tom, let me ask you a question... How many politicians say one thing on the road to being elected and do something totally different when they are elected?

And, do you take that one statement and forget the dozen that says something different?

 

[Buddha Dharma]

So some evil dictators believed in social darwinism.....your point?


I couldn't care less about the politics of Darwinism. 100% irrelevant to the fact of the evolution of living organisms.

Exactly, and the claim that some evil dictators believed in Social Darwinism therefore evolution is evil is a false dilemma on the OP's part.

Social Darwinism is not part of the theory as put forth by science. Social Darwinism employs lots of pseudo-science. It even sometimes rejects mainstream Darwinian evolution- like when the Nazis burned On the Origin of Species en masse.

I even wonder who coined the usage 'Social Darwinism'.

 

[columbus]

Tom, let me ask you a question... How many politicians say one thing on the road to being elected and do something totally different when they are elected?

And, do you take that one statement and forget the dozen that says something different?

Where did he do anything different? What did he say that was different?

Why do you think he wasn't a racist? Being against slavery is not necessarily being for racial equality and harmony and integration. He was a man of his time. In EuroChristian culture that means racist. Modern secular morality just wasn't very widespread back then.
Tom

 

[Kenny]

Where did he do anything different? What did he say that was different?


Tom

"In 1841 you and I had together a tedious low-water trip, on a Steam Boat from Louisville to St. Louis. You may remember, as I well do, that from Louisville to the mouth of the Ohio there were, on board, ten or a dozen slaves, shackled together with irons. That sight was a continual torment to me; and I see something like it every time I touch the Ohio, or any other slave-border." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Letter to Joshua F. Speed" (August 24, 1855), p. 320.

"I think slavery is wrong, morally, and politically. I desire that it should be no further spread in these United States, and I should not object if it should gradually terminate in the whole Union." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, "Speech at Cincinnati, Ohio" (September 17, 1859), p. 440.

"In giving freedom to the slave, we assure freedom to the free - honorable alike in what we give, and what we preserve. We shall nobly save, or meanly lose, the last best hope of earth. Other means may succeed; this could not fail. The way is plain, peaceful, generous, just - a way which, if followed, the world will forever applaud, and God must forever bless." Lincoln's Second Annual Message to Congress, December 1, 1862.

"Slavery is founded in the selfishness of man's nature - opposition to it, is his love of justice. These principles are an eternal antagonism; and when brought into collision so fiercely, as slavery extension brings them, shocks, and throes, and convulsions must ceaselessly follow." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Speech at Peoria, Illinois" (October 16, 1854), p. 271.

"I have always hated slavery, I think as much as any abolitionist." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Speech at Chicago, Illinois" (July 10, 1858), p. 492.

"So plain that no one, high or low, ever does mistake it, except in a plainly selfish way; for although volume upon volume is written to prove slavery a very good thing, we never hear of the man who wishes to take the good of it, by being a slave himself." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Fragment on Slavery" (April 1, 1854?), p. 222.

There are so many more.

 

[columbus]

"I have always hated slavery, I think as much as any abolitionist."

You are still confusing abolition of slavery with racial equality.

They are not the same thing. The Christians in this country were generally fine with oppression and genocide, at the time.
Tom

 

[Kenny]

You are still confusing abolition of slavery with racial equality.

They are not the same thing. The Christians in this country were generally fine with oppression and genocide, at the time.
Tom

Hardly. I think you need to reread all my posts.

 

[shunyadragon]

Hardly. I think you need to reread all my posts.

There was nothing in your posts that contradict this. The biggest issue is you have failed to remotely demonstrate that the science of evolution caused the death of anyone,

 

[columbus]

Hardly. I think you need to reread all my posts.

Where in those posts did Lincoln advocate racial equality?
I posted a statement where he specifically ruled that out.
Tom

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Exactly, and the claim that some evil dictators believed in Social Darwinism therefore evolution is evil is a false dilemma on the OP's part.

Social Darwinism is not part of the theory as put forth by science. Social Darwinism employs lots of pseudo-science. It even sometimes rejects mainstream Darwinian evolution- like when the Nazis burned On the Origin of Species en masse.

I even wonder who coined the usage 'Social Darwinism'.

Yes, and even if the OP believes evolution on a natural scale is "evil" this also has no bearing on its truth. In fact, evolution can be an ugly process. 99% of all species that ever existed have gone extinct, and this makes no sense if one believes that an intelligent designer orchestrated it all. But, it makes perfect sense from a naturalistic viewpoint. As Dawkins said, "Nature is not cruel; just callously indifferent."

 

[Kenny]

There was nothing in your posts that contradict this. The biggest issue is you have failed to remotely demonstrate that the science of evolution caused the death of anyone,

Only in your mind, I'm sure.

 

[Kenny]

Where in those posts did Lincoln advocate racial equality?
I posted a statement where he specifically ruled that out.
Tom

"So plain that no one, high or low, ever does mistake it, except in a plainly selfish way; for although volume upon volume is written to prove slavery a very good thing, we never hear of the man who wishes to take the good of it, by being a slave himself." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Fragment on Slavery" (April 1, 1854?), p. 222.

Tom, have you ever seen a politician say one thing on the stumping grounds and do something else when they are in office?

 

[Kenny]

Not to change the subject, but I found this quote of Abraham:

As a nation, we began by declaring that 'all men are created equal.' We now practically read it 'all men are created equal, except negroes.' When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.

Abraham Lincoln
Letter to Joshua F. Speed, 24 Aug. 1855

I just don't see him as a racist but more of a realist knowing how much he had the capacity to change with the Supreme Court having ruled that inequality was legal until they ruled differently.

 

[Kenny]

Then again, I found this one. Apparently he had a battle within himself:

I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and black races. There is physical difference between the two which, in my judgment, will probably forever forbid their living together upon the footing of perfect equality, and inasmuch as it becomes a necessity that there must be a difference, I, as well as Judge Douglas, am in favor of the race to which I belong having the superior position.

Abraham Lincoln

At least we can be thankful that he did free people in slavery. And we can be thankful that we have finally come to the conclusion that 0- "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

 

[metis]

At least we can be thankful that he did free people in slavery.

You keep telling us that but my wife says otherwise.

 

[columbus]

Then again, I found this one. Apparently he had a battle within himself:

I don't doubt that he did. Secular values were spreading, but still in conflict with the traditional Scripture based values.
I am not a mind reader, I don't claim to know what Lincoln believed in his heart of hearts. But I see no reason to believe that he believed in the modern secular racial harmony and equality. Nothing he said or did suggests that he was that far ahead of the culture of the day.
A Christian culture.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Keep in mind, the author of these high minded words was a slave owner, who helped along the genocide of the Americas, and sent the USA navy to crush the New World's second republic.
Tom

 

[Kenny]

I don't doubt that he did. Secular values were spreading, but still in conflict with the traditional Scripture based values.

Tom

You are quite funny. The equality of mankind is a Biblical stance before secular was even in the mind of a person.