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Featured Daniel 9:21, The Man Gabriel

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Faithofchristian, Feb 24, 2019.

  1. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    I know what your doing which isn't right.
    Your think of Israel as the people of Israel.

    After to remember that God changed Jacobs name to Israel.

    Therefore when God said my servant Israel this is in reference to Jacob.

    Notice in Isaiah 49:1--"Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The Lord hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name"

    This when God called Jacob from the womb of his mother.
    And then later God changed Jacob's name to Israel.

    Therefore Isaiah chapter 49 pertains to Jacob. Which Jacob's name was changed to Israel by God
     
  2. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Yes, I know that .. however over and over again Israel (all the Hebrews) are referred to as a collective .. as in the harlot or the light unto the world or as the suffering servant of God.
     
  3. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    That all depends on which Israel your in reference to.
     
  4. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Jacob was no longer around.. He was long dead.
     
  5. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    There is no "suffering servant" per se. There is only the "arm of the LORD" "who grew up before 'Him', and he "was pierced through for our transgressions" (Isaiah 53). Jacob, as in the sons of Israel, the house of Judah and the house of Israel, would be "each of us has turned to his own way" (Isaiah 53:6). As for the "understanding" of Daniel, neither "Christians" nor "Jews" that continue in the path of sin, "wickedness", have "understanding" of the "outcome of these events" with regards to Daniel, because they have been "sealed up until the end of time", upon which at that time, the "wicked" will remain in the dark. (Daniel 12:7-10).
     
  6. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    There is no "suffering servant" per se. Joshua/Yeshua was disliked to the decree that the Jews apparently campaigned for him to be killed.
     
  7. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Some Jews in Jerusalem. By all accounts he had many Jewish followers.
     
  8. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Israel, the "house of Israel" (Ezekiel 36:17) is currently Ephraim, which is currently "scattered among the nations" (Ezekiel 36:19) and remains "playing the harlot" (Hosea 5:3). The "house of Judah"/Judah, is the only "house" that has been "restored" (Joel 3:1) at this time, along with "Jerusalem". "My servant" David will be made king over them", the "them" being the combined stick of Judah and Ephraim, the sons of "My servant Jacob". That is in the future, after "I will take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land" (Ezekiel 37:21). With respect to the remaining "remnant", with respect to the vision of Isaiah with respect to Judah and Jerusalem, it will be a "very small remnant", and in the "last days", "the word of the LORD" will go forth from Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:3).

    Isaiah 1:9
    Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.


    By "all accounts", the leadership of the Jews despised him, or as with the high priest, wished him dead so the many could live. As for your followers, apparently they fell away (Matthew 26:31).
     
  9. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    In Jerusalem the leadership hated him, but they were always a bunch of sour pusses.. and not prosperous.. Jesus' ministry was almost exclusively among the Jews of the Decapolis and around Galilee..
     
  10. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    I think Yeshua's followers were of the poor, such as poor fishermen, and people thankful for a free lunch of fish and loafs. After John the Baptist "had been taken into custody" (Matthew 4:12), Yeshua withdrew to the land of "Capernaum and Zebulun, Galilee of the Gentiles" to fulfill Isaiah 9:2. Yeshua had apparently few healings in his own home town, for "no prophet is welcome in his home town" (Luke 4:24).
     
  11. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The name "Israel" was inherited by Ephraim, the "house of Israel". It was the "house of Israel" who was described as "you have played the harlot" (Hosea 5:3). Judah, the "house of Judah", was warned not to go down that path, but actually did worship the sun, as in the god of Babylon, Marduk/Bel (Ezekiel 8:16). Judah, is referenced as "like those who move a boundary" (Hosea 5:10), much like lawyers and bankers might try and pull off. As Israel/Ephraim, the "house of Israel" (Ezekiel 36:17) is "scattered among the nations" (Ezekiel 36:19), and still pursuing pagan gods, and is hidden among the Gentiles, she certainly is not a "light unto the world". "In that day" "a shoot" that sprung from the "stem of Jesse" (Isaiah11:1) will become a "signal for the peoples/nations", and "on that day" "the Lord will again recover the second time with his hand the remnant of his people". And Ephraim and Judah, will "together" "plunder the sons of the east" (Isaiah 11:14) & (Zechariah 14:14). This is all yet in the future, but being set up as we speak. (Revelation 16:13-19). And again, there is no "suffering servant" per se, and Isaiah 53:1 is referring to the "arm of the LORD", "who grew up" as a "tender shoot" as with the "shoot" of the "stem of Jesse" (Isaiah 11:1), who was "despised" (Isaiah 43:3), as was "My Servant, Israel" of Isaiah 49:3 & 7).

    New American Standard Bible (Ezekiel 8:16)
    Then He brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house. And behold, at the entrance to the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about twenty-five men with their backs to the temple of the LORD and their faces toward the east; and they were prostrating themselves eastward toward the sun.
     
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  12. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    You are looking for a literalist word for word truth that exemplifies the kind of categorizations that we have in science. The sacred texts simply are not that kind of book.

    Gabriel appeared to Daniel in his vision as a man. It doesn't mean he was a man. It was a VISION. Visions are symbolic.
     
  13. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Why do you think the 70 men of the Sanhedrin were not prosperous?
     
  14. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Jerusalem was always poor.
     
  15. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Oh brother.

    Don't shift the goal posts. What makes you think that the members of the Sanhedron were not prosperous?
     
  16. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    I said Jerusalem was always poor. You brought up the Sanhedrin.
     
  17. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Either ans
    Because the original statement was about the religious leaders. I'm not the one who brought them up. I merely asked for clarification.

    Again, let's stay on topic.
     
  18. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    Your knowledge of scripture is poor.

    The Servant songs (also called the Servant poems or the Songs of the Suffering Servant) are songs in the Book of Isaiah in the Hebrew Bible.
     
  19. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

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    My posts have been about Israel.. You might read the thread.
     
  20. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Not when Daniel said, The Man Gabriel, that's quite obvious
    As Daniel said nothing about Gabriel appeared like a man, No
    Daniel plainly said ( the Man Gabriel)

    Now notice heres what Daniel said
    The man Gabriel.

    "Yet, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation" Daniel 9:21

    ( The Man Gabriel)
     
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