1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Daniel 3:29 Deliverance

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by savagewind, Sep 20, 2012.

  1. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    38,462
    Ratings:
    +4,494
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    Therefore I decree that the people of any nation or language who say anything against the God of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego be cut into pieces and their houses be turned into piles of rubble, for no other god can save in this way

    John 3:17
    For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

    Matthew 28:18,19,20
    18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age

    John 4:22
    You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews

    Psalm 143:2
    Do not bring your servant into judgment, for no one living is righteous before you

    Psalm 14:3
    All have turned aside, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one

    Romans 3:9,10
    9 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one. 11 there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. 12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one.


    I have communicated that Revelation 16:14 means a quarrel, not a war. What is the quarrel about? Who is right. It's about who is right. But the answer is no one.

    Why Daniel? The three Hebrew men picture faith in God. Their staunch faith in God, the one whose power is to deliver, effected human law. It was NOT their purpose to do so. Their purpose was to stay faithful unto even death.

    But what has faith become? Faith has become religion. Religion divides people. Religion has become an arm with so-called power to change human law. But the command at Matthew 28:19 which NOW says "make" disciples meant BE disciples like the three Hebrew youths at Daniel 3:16-18. Make was added a long time ago.
     
  2. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    38,462
    Ratings:
    +4,494
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    If it is true that it was not his intention for the sheep on his right hand (Matthew 25:33) who are destined for everlasting life to be making more sheep to be over on his right hand, do you think where it says so might be fixed?

    Thank you twelve for viewing my thread. I was worried.
     
  3. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    38,462
    Ratings:
    +4,494
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    OK. It seems to be the only place in scripture that commands the making of disciples. The belief that disciples of Y'ushua A'Mashiyach might be made has caused dissension among people and nations. Even among families. Is it not a problem?
     
  4. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    38,462
    Ratings:
    +4,494
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    What difference does it make? A little leaven ferments the whole lump.

    If it is believed that disciples must be MADE and the Kingdom of God seems to be delayed, what will happen in the mind of some believers in Christ? To be making more disciples any which way. Does that happen in real life? When it happens who is it for? God? No.
     
  5. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    38,462
    Ratings:
    +4,494
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    And then if it is possible that thought is not only contained inside one's head but in spirit can also dwell outside one's head the feeling of you will make me you can get powerful enough to make it an object of fight or flight. Either way a person goes with it, it can't be good. Can it?
     
  6. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    38,462
    Ratings:
    +4,494
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    It is funny. I don't mind.
     
  7. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    38,462
    Ratings:
    +4,494
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    OK. I was debating with myself what three means in the illustration of Luke 13:21.
    It is like leaven, which a woman, having taken, did hide in three measures of meal, till that all was leavened

    Why three I wondered?

    Can three stand for 1. believers 2. nonbelievers and 3. The Leader?
     
  8. Rakhel

    Rakhel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    7,816
    Ratings:
    +828
    Religion:
    Spiritually Awake
    I am trying to figure out what to say...
    But have yet to figure out what.
     
  9. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    38,462
    Ratings:
    +4,494
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    I understand. What I'm thinking is there is a big difference between to be a disciple and to make disciples. It is being taught that to be a disciple means to be making disciples. They are two different paths. If I am correct and adding 'make' to the command is causing bad things to happen it is a whole hellofalotof Bibles to change. And at least one religion that I know of would be out of business.
     
  10. Rakhel

    Rakhel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    7,816
    Ratings:
    +828
    Religion:
    Spiritually Awake
    kinda reminds me of the candy bar church I attended once or twice.
    The church bus would come around and offer candy bars to come to church.Turns out there was a catch.
    You got on the bus, went to church, and they gave you a candy bar(don't remember what it was). You were then told that if you wanted another one, you had to come to church the next week. So you do and they did. Only this time, you are told that in order to get a candy bar now, you must bring two friends. And they, then, fall into the trap of the candy bar.
    I didn't stay there long.

    So if you were to replace "candy bar" with "Jesus" you kind of end up with the same result.
    Why do you have to bring people to Jesus in order to get Jesus?
    Shouldn't Jesus be enough?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. javajo

    javajo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    Messages:
    2,319
    Ratings:
    +74
    My belief...One person said, "I'm just a beggar showing other beggars where they can find bread." Jesus said he is the bread of life and if we believe in him he gives us eternal life freely. I think spiritually hungry and lost people need to feed on the bread of life first, before being asked to carry their cross...First share the good news of the free gift of salvation, then those freely saved people can begin growing in Christ, in grace, into mature disciples, with the help of God and others. While it is most important to lead people to Christ for salvation, following up with teaching and discipleship is important, too, for a person or a church to take root and grow.
     
  12. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    38,462
    Ratings:
    +4,494
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    It's not a job. HE IS Lord of the Sabbath. Do people make it their job to lead people to Christ? That's what I'm talking about. There is ONE Leader. The Leader is a Spirit with God. So what you say is true. But it is not for "rooting" is it?
    John 15:19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you
    John 17:14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world

    The rest of what you say I agree with. A disciple will be like his teacher. 'Jesus' did not make disciples. He found them.

    Thank you.
     
  13. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Messages:
    38,462
    Ratings:
    +4,494
    Religion:
    An X-Jehovah's Witness
    That is a good story. If I didn't know better I might think you made it up. Thank you for sharing it Rakhel.
     
Loading...