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Dan the thirteenth tribe of Israel.

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by The Anointed, Jan 5, 2019.

  1. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    The 12 tribes of Israel in Numbers 7: 12-83; are Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, Reuben, Simeon, Gad, Ephraim, Manasseh, Benjamin, Dan, Asher and Naphtali. Add to those 12, the tribe of Levi who is not counted among those 12 and we have 13 tribes of Israel.

    In Revelation 7: 5-8; the 12 tribes of Israel from which the 144,000 are chosen are, Judah, Reuben, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, Zebulun, Ephraim, who carries the name of his fathers house/Joseph, and Benjamin. Add to those 12, the tribe of Dan who is not counted there and we have 13 tribes.
     
  2. Rival

    Rival Noachide
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    Yes, there are 13. This isn't new.
     
  3. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    Thirteen Tribes Of Israel (Genesis Chapter 49)

    The twelve tribes of Israel were based on the descent from the twelve sons of Jacob, also known as Israel. They were Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, and Benjamin. Jacob, however, blessed Joseph's two sons; the elder Manasseh and the younger Ephraim. (Genesis 48:5, 13-20) Since the tribe of Levi didn't have a land inheritance, but rather portions within the territories of each tribe and didn't register for the army they were not always considered in addition to the 12. Since Joseph died in Egypt before the exodus it only follows that he had no land inheritance. All of this explains why Manasseh wasn't listed at Genesis 49. The chapter is really more about the blessings of Jacob to his 12 sons than a formal listing of the 12 tribes. The "tribe" of Joseph is officially separated into the tribes of Manasseh and Ephraim at Numbers 10:14-28.

    Army Registration (Numbers Chapter 1)

    Numbers chapter 1 gives the details of an army registration, and since the priestly tribe of Levi were not registered as such the tribe of Levi was not mentioned. The Skeptic's Annotated Bible (SAB) lists the children of Joseph in Joseph's stead which would be Ephraim and Manasseh, though the SAB lists Manasseh separately.

    Spies Of Israel (Numbers Chapter 13)

    Numbers chapter 13 gives the account of 2 chieftains of each of the 12 tribes of Israel, excluding the tribe of Levi being selected for a reconnaissance mission into the land of Canaan. The Levites being excluded due to their priestly duties. Of the 12 tribes, 10 of them return with faithless and cowardly reports, causing the people to fear going into the land. Joshua (then known as Hoshea, Oshea - KJV) from the tribe of Ephraim and Caleb from the tribe of Judah gave favorable reports. Note that the tribe of Ephraim and Manasseh are tribes representing Joseph who is not actually listed as a tribe in and of itself.

    Moses Blessing (Deuteronomy Chapter 33)

    When Moses blessed the tribes Simeon was not named. Probably because as a tribe it was much smaller in size as well as its land was enclosed in the territory of Judah.

    Ezekiel's Vision (Ezekiel Chapter 48)

    The list of tribes in Ezekiel's vision of the holy contribution is the same as the list given in the land inheritance of Joshua mentioned above. For some reason the SAB has Naphtali missing from the list when he actually appears in verses 3, 4, and 34 of chapter 48.

    Land Inheritance (Joshua 13-19)

    Upon coming to the Promised Land Joseph wasn't represented by a tribe, but instead his two sons, Manasseh and Ephraim were counted as tribes. This didn't result in there being 13 tribes, as such, because the priestly tribe of Levi received no land inheritance nor did they register for the army. (Numbers 1:49 / Deuteronomy 18:1) The listing here is the same as Ezekiel's above.

    The Spiritual Israel (Revelation Chapter 7)

    The number 12 represents organizational completeness. As can be seen with the 12 apostles as well as the 12 tribes of Israel, natural and spiritual. The list of tribes listed in revelation were not the natural tribes of Israel, as Hosea had foretold, and Paul confirmed. (Hosea 2:23 / Romans 9:24-25) The spiritual Israel which Paul referred to as Israel of God at Galatians 6:15-16.

    By the time John had written the book of Revelation the tribal records had long been destroyed in the destruction of Jerusalem, not to mention natural Israel had rejected the Lamb of God who John now envisioned standing on heavenly Mount Zion with the spiritual Israel - the 144,000. (Revelation 7:4; Revelation 14:1, Revelation 14:4) 12 tribes of 12,000 each.

    Since Rueben had lost his right as firstborn (Genesis 49:3-4 / 1 Chronicles 5:1-2) and Joseph received that privilege, an extra portion of Israel was given him. (Genesis 48:21-22) Thus Joseph was represented by two familial portions in the spiritual tribe of Israel. Where Levi was often excluded due to priestly duty, he is now included, though the spiritual Israel differs from the natural in that all are a royal priesthood. (1 Peter 2:9) Through no fault of Dan he is simply not included in order to maintain the symbolic importance of the number 12, signifying organizational completeness.
     
  4. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    I think that you will find that the reason why Jacob adopted the two sons of Joseph as his own, is because Dan, the giant was sterile, His adopted daughter 'Hushim,' was the daughter of Dan's mother 'Bilhah,' and Hushim was conceived when Bilhah was raped by Reuben the first born of Jacob.

    Hushim married Shaharaim from the tribe of Benjamin, to whom she bore “Abitub,” through who the line of Dan was counted, and Elpaal was her other son, who is the ancestor of Saul the first king of Israel, who stood a head taller than any other Israelite.

    Perhaps Bilhah carried in her genes something which caused some of her descendants to be extremely big sterile men. Samson, whose ancestor was Bilhah the mother of Dan, was known as a great womaniser, but Like the giant Dan, he too was apparently sterile and died Childless, even Manoah, the father of Samson appears to have been sterile, and his wife was only able to conceive after being visited by a messenger of the Lord..

    The Children who were born through Abitub (ABI Means 'Jah is FATHER') the son of Hushim and Shararaim, were in fact members of the tribe of Benjamin.

    Where ever a man has no sons, and his descendants are counted from his daughter, she is given the appellation "BEN." Hushim ben Dan is the half-sister and adopted daughter of Dan, who married into the tribe of Benjamin and through whose son Abitub, the tribe of Dan is counted.

    The tribe of Dan, who was actually the fifth born son of Jacob, but who was counted as the seventh born son of Israel, because the six sons born to Leah, the only true wife of Jacob had to receive the first 6 blessings. Dan received the seventh allotment in the Promised Land. But being unable to drive out the original inhabitants in the open country that was allocated to them, they were forced to live in the hill country among their brother tribe “Benjamin.”

    The only inhabitants of the land of Benjamin who survived the slaughter of that tribe, were 600 fighting men from the tribe of Dan, (Who were actually descendants of Shaharaim the Benjaminite) who took refuge at the rock of Rimon in the open country which had been allocated to Dan. In 1st Chronicles 7: 4-12; The descendants of Benjamin and Dan the adopted father of Hushim are counted together and in chapter 8: 8-11; Shahariam is the father of Hushims two sons Abitub and Elpaal, who are also called Huppim and Shuppim, and it is through Abitub the grandson of Dan through his adopted daughter “HUSHIM” that the tribe of Dan is counted.
     
    #4 The Anointed, Jan 5, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
  5. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Didn't something bad happen to the tribe of Benjamin, like totally wiping it out. Perhaps G_d was not well pleased.
     
  6. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the 12th tribe of Benjamin was destroyed by his brother tribes, Judges 20: 18; The Israelites turned back against the Benjaminites and killed them all----men, women and Children, and the animals as well. They also burned all the cities of Benjamin.

    The only survivors, were the six hundred Danites, who were the descendants of Sharahraim from the tribe of Benjamin.

    All the women in the land of Benjamin were killed. Judges 21: 6-7. Now the Israelites grieved for the tribe of Benjamin, their fellow Israelites. "Today one tribe is cut off from Israel," they said. 7"How can we provide wives for those who are left, since we have taken an oath by the LORD not to give them any of our daughters in marriage?"

    Because the inhabitants of Jabesh, who were the descendants of Dinah, the sister of the 12, who had been raped by Shechem, had not answered the call to fight against Benjamin, the Israelites sent twelve thousand of their bravest men to Jabesh, with orders to kill everyone except for the virgins, of which they found only 400.

    Being 200 girls short for the 600 survivors, and because they had made a vow, never to allow they daughters to marry a descendant of Benjamin, the 600 survivors were told to steal 200 virgins who would be dancing at the yearly feast of the Lord in Shiloh, and if their fathers or brothers came to them and protested, they were told to say to them, "Please let us keep them, because we did not take them from you in battle to be our wives. And since you did not give them to us, you are not guilty of breaking your promise to the Lord.

    After the land of Benjamin had been divided up among other tribes, those 600 Danites who were the descendants of Sharahraim the Benjamite, then, with their wives, children and all their belongings moved up into the land of Sidon and murdered all the peaceful inhabitants of the town of Laish and renamed it 'DAN' and dwelt there.
    (They weren't coming back)
     
  7. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    One of the most sad chapters. For me, it is inexplicable. Can someone explain this?
     
  8. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    Just as the 12th tribe was lost, so too was the 12th Disciple, 'Judas Iscariot destined to be lost.

    I wonder at times if he really did commit suicide.
     
  9. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    I can't remember it all right now. There were two authors contemporaries of that time. One of them supported the Christian version. The other one said that Jesus walked out of the area and Allah SWT took him to Heaven. The crowd was deceived to think that Judas was Jesus and he was crucified instead. That's the Islamic version.

    Just keep in mind that God's desires for us are very simple, and it is we who complicate life, perhaps?
     
  10. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    It certainly is very simple, "Reproduce and live by the law that you impose on the society around you."
     
  11. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    And that is the fallacy. We try to play Gods and ignore his desires for us. God just wants us to follow his very simple laws, but satan gets in there and convinces us that God's desires are complicated and toilsome. Sad. Very sad.
     
  12. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    And what is God's simple laws, if not the laws that are written on your heart, which laws you impose on all around you. You don't want people stealing from you, you don't want someone killing you or those around you, you do not want others jumping into the cot with your life's partner, etc.

    If you break the very law that you impose on others, you condemn yourself; For I tell you now, You are your own judge..
     
  13. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Don't use "you" on me. I've had enough of the tender mercies of God's believers. I'd say that the 10 commandments, Micah 6:8 and one or two others about covers it. Catholics, Mormons, Jews and others make believing in God a toilsome affair.
     
  14. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    Sorry! Just trying to help you sort out the nonsense.
     
  15. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Thanks a lot! :)
     
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