Cures for Sectarian or Ethnocentric Ignorance

[Vinayaka]

One of the common misconceptions that we hear about is the lack of knowledge about how vast we are. Generally, this is directed at non-Hindus, and in that case, I find it more acceptable, as you expect it. Ideas like all Hindus speaking Hindi, for example, is kind of reasonable. After all, all inhabitants of France speak French, in Greece they speak Greek, etc. So it's kind of logical. Incorrect, but logical.

But where I find it challenging is in India, from Indians. In America or Europe, it's less so, as immigrants come from everywhere, and tend to mix under the common umbrella of Hinduism. In other words, a Gujarati is more likely to meet a Tamilian in Canada than he is in India itself.

The same concept applies to our religion. It's as diverse, or more diverse than the languages of India, and quite often a person had never been outside of their own sectarian or geographic view, other than perhaps to read, or meeting someone via work from another province. So what I find a challenge is when a person legitimately thinks that their version of Hinduism is the only version of Hinduism, and accuses any other version of being wrong.

Travel, or going to other temples, or having discussions like we have here is helpful, but not all folks hve those opportunities.

T be fair, this is a relatively rare occurrence, but the fact that it happens at all is enough to address it. What would you say to someone who accuses you of getting it wrong, or not understanding Hinduism?

 

[SalixIncendium]

What would you say to someone who accuses you of getting it wrong, or not understanding Hinduism?

It would depend on who that someone is.

If it's a Hindu, I would probably consider what they said, and then consider if I have any business calling myself a Hindu, given they likely know far more about Hinduism than I do.

If it's a non-Hindu, I would probably just say "okay" and dismiss it.

Truth be told, my views are experiential, so they are what they are. The only thing that could possibly be wrong is the label.

 

[Vinayaka]

It would depend on who that someone is.

If it's a Hindu, I would probably consider what they said, and then consider if I have any business calling myself a Hindu, given they likely know far more about Hinduism than I do.

If it's a non-Hindu, I would probably just say "okay" and dismiss it.

Truth be told, my view are experiential, so they are what they are. The only thing that could possibly be wrong is the label.

Indeed, every case varies. But with this mindset I'm referring to, it's like the Christians who accuse each other of not being a real Christian. Twice now I've witnessed people saying 'This isn't a real temple' while they were visiting each other's temple. Here in Edmonton, despite there being at least 12 temples, many folks think there is only one ... the one they attend. Fortunately the mindset is rare, and lots of folks have been to 3 or 4 at least. I've been to 8 of them out of 12.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Indeed, every case varies. But with this mindset I'm referring to, it's like the Christians who accuse each other of not being a real Christian. Twice now I've witnessed people saying 'This isn't a real temple' while they were visiting each other's temple. Here in Edmonton, despite there being at least 12 temples, many folks think there is only one ... the one they attend. Fortunately the mindset is rare, and lots of folks have been to 3 or 4 at least. I've been to 8 of them out of 12.

It's the ego that drives one to think their [anything] is superior to another's, and I think that in some cases, this is a result of insecurity that another's [anything] might actually be better (or more correct) than theirs. But I think most commonly, it's the desire to feel somehow more valid than another.

 

[stvdv]

What would you say to someone who accuses you of getting it wrong, or not understanding Hinduism?

I would say "thank you for reminding me that I do not understand Hinduism", knowing that Hinduism has more wisdom than I can ever fathom

 

[stvdv]

It's the ego that drives one to think their [anything] is superior to another's, and I think that in some cases, this is a result of insecurity that another's [anything] might actually be better (or more correct) than theirs.

I also think it is insecurity

But I think most commonly, it's the desire to feel somehow more valid than another.

I have met a few people over the years who have this, and these people all had 1 thing in common "very dominant parents". They never were able to speak up to their mother/father (in 2 of the people I have met), and hence they felt belittled, which is a horrible feeling (I know myself). There is a way out of this, and that is to speak up to your parents, but when not done, they use the second way, to speak up to others.

Because they still have the anger towards their parents who belittled them, they can only phrase it in an angry/arrogant way (that's what their parents showed them by example, and many children copy parents when young). Such habits, learned at very young age, are very difficult to transform.

But for them it's good to speak up, even when doing it arrogantly in the beginning, because slowly their self confidence will grow, and slowly they will find out their emotional blocks, and drop the arrogant (being superior) part. But I also see people who never get over their trauma; keep their superiority feeling (or act)

 

[Aupmanyav]

Hindus, when they come across an understanding of Hinduism which is different from theirs will say that is it a different mata (opinion) or panth (road). And that is just as valid as their own. For example Vinayaka, you, and Jai have a different opinion than mine. That is OK and we are entitled to it - 'Vipra bahudha vadanti'.

 

[Viraja]

More than individual views on another sect of Hinduism, it is the judgemental attitude that I find offensive.

For example, there are many people who would not wear Western clothes in India. For the damage, the Englishman caused to India.

But, to me, it is to be viewed as an individual prerogative to hold the dress-code standard, but yet, it becomes mandatory to try not to judge other's patriotism based on their choice of wearing Western clothes.

Similarly for other aspects of standards and beliefs held on various fronts (religious, cultural, patriotic).

There is a fine line between holding on to the ideals and being judgemental, it takes profound spiritual wisdom to determine when someone can be judged and when not.

Sorry it is not my intention to divert the focus of this thread, but this message also applies to sectarianism.

 

[Vinayaka]

I would say "thank you for reminding me that I do not understand Hinduism", knowing that Hinduism has more wisdom than I can ever fathom

I'm not so concerned or interested with westerners, but more in witnessing dialogues between Indians. But it also happens occasionally with westerners. I was at a temple in Chicago when a guy younger than me came over to 'explain' Hinduism to me. My wife and I were sitting peacefully in the canteen, and he was sort of pestery. Another chap, who recognised my sampradaya by our mannerisms, came over and bluntly told the first guy. "These folks probably know way more about Hinduism that you do, so maybe you should leave them alone." So yes that sort of thing happens.

Personally, I'm a watcher, but will act if necessary to clear doubts. There can be a polite way. For example, you can say, "I'm sorry but at this temple, non priests aren't allowed in the sanctum."

 

[Vinayaka]

More than individual views on another sect of Hinduism, it is the judgemental attitude that I find offensive.

For example, there are many people who would not wear Western clothes in India. For the damage, the Englishman caused to India.

But, to me, it is to be viewed as an individual prerogative to hold the dress-code standard, but yet, it becomes mandatory to try not to judge other's patriotism based on their choice of wearing Western clothes.

Similarly for other aspects of standards and beliefs held on various fronts (religious, cultural, patriotic).

There is a fine line between holding on to the ideals and being judgemental, it takes profound spiritual wisdom to determine when someone can be judged and when not.

Sorry it is not my intention to divert the focus of this thread, but this message also applies to sectarianism.

Thank you, and I agree. It's important for everyone o know the protocol of any individual temple. For example, at Tiruchendur, men have to take their shirts off, including kurtas. A person from somewhere else may have never seen that custom. In my view, he should just take his shirt off and get inside to worship Murugan, not try to have some big argument with the security guy or temple authorities. He can't possibly win that argument anyway.

So when in Rome ... as they say.

 

[Vinayaka]

Hindus, when they come across an understanding of Hinduism which is different from theirs will say that is it a different mata (opinion) or panth (road). And that is just as valid as their own. For example Vinayaka, you, and Jai have a different opinion than mine. That is OK and you are entitled to it - 'Vipra bahudha vadanti'.

In general, I agree, and folks like you and I get that, but it's the ones who don't get it that I wonder about. Perhaps you've never encountered any, Aup.

 

[stvdv]

I'm not so concerned or interested with westerners, but more in witnessing dialogues between Indians. But it also happens occasionally with westerners. I was at a temple in Chicago when a guy younger than me came over to 'explain' Hinduism to me. My wife and I were sitting peacefully in the canteen, and he was sort of pestery. Another chap, who recognised my sampradaya by our mannerisms, came over and bluntly told the first guy. "These folks probably know way more about Hinduism that you do, so maybe you should leave them alone." So yes that sort of thing happens.

Yes, also in Hinduism this behavior does happen. I remember that Sai Baba cut of 3 whole countries from the International Sai organisation, because some misbehaved. If I remember correctly it also had to do with similar behavior like you described. Was quite drastic to cut of 3 whole countries, but it was effective. These countries really got the message, and did their best to get their act together.

So, I agree that being blunt is necessary sometimes, because this Spiritual Ego (I know better than you) is hard to break

Personally, I'm a watcher, but will act if necessary to clear doubts. There can be a polite way. For example, you can say, "I'm sorry but at this temple, non priests aren't allowed in the sanctum."

My previous reply to you was an example when I am in a very good mood. Normally they don't get away that easy with these things

 

[Aupmanyav]

Perhaps you've never encountered any, Aup.

Yeah, I have never encountered any. Sure, if one person presents his views, the other person also will present his views with the equal vigor (just like what I do in the forums here). That is common in Hinduism.

And as you said in your post, the pestering guy was shooed off by another Hindu who recognized the freedom of belief in Hinduism.

 

[ajay0]

So what I find a challenge is when a person legitimately thinks that their version of Hinduism is the only version of Hinduism, and accuses any other version of being wrong.

Travel, or going to other temples, or having discussions like we have here is helpful, but not all folks hve those opportunities.

T be fair, this is a relatively rare occurrence, but the fact that it happens at all is enough to address it. What would you say to someone who accuses you of getting it wrong, or not understanding Hinduism?

Every sectarian viewpoint is correct within their own context and perspective. However, if they are becoming conflict-prone, it is because of lack of understanding of the bigger picture.

A man of feeling might fight Bhakti yoga attractive, while a man of action may find Karma Yoga is the only way forward, or a man of intellect may find Jnana yoga is the best, or some may find raja yoga (yoga of mysticism) the best.

There are also many dualistic philosophies as well.

I have encountered a lot of people who think their path is the best, even from other religions. And since most people try to impress me by talking about their paths, I just listen to them silently hoping to get some tips. And I have gotten some good information and data as well, which I found to be ample reward for my patience.

Fanatic versions of Hinduism stems mainly from the conservative sections but thankfully they don't indulge in violence. However casteist violence is a fact throughout most parts of rural India. This is because of lack of necessary emphasis on the vedic teachings that emphasize equality and fraternity of all human beings and more emphasis on man-made feudal customs which were supposed to be of a temporary nature.

I have also met people with superstitious or uneducated beliefs. I try to correct them if possible,especially if they are young, but leave the incorrigible alone. I found it to be a waste of time and energy.

 

[Jainarayan]

I really don’t know how I’d react or what I would say. I might say “hmm, thanks for pointing that out” and either walk away or if I couldn’t get away, change the subject.

Btw, it was rampant in Ásatrú and Heathenry a while back. I think not so much nowadays. There was the idea of “gods of limited access”. If you said you had a relationship with a god or goddess you’d hear “you’re doing it wrong”.

 

[Aupmanyav]

It is our training and experience, 'samskaras', which offer suggestions. Some people go by it, some people ignore it. Some people may not have good 'samskaras', so no advice. In my view, no God is involved.

 

[Vinayaka]

I really don’t know how I’d react or what I would say. I might say “hmm, thanks for pointing that out” and either walk away or if I couldn’t get away, change the subject.

Btw, it was rampant in Ásatrú and Heathenry a while back. I think not so much nowadays. There was the idea of “gods of limited access”. If you said you had a relationship with a god or goddess you’d hear “you’re doing it wrong”.

Some people have 'You're doing it wrong' prepared before they even listen to you. It's like when you say 'I agree' and then they continue to argue their point. I need to make a t-shirt that says "Yeah, I know. You're right and I'm wrong."

 

[Jainarayan]

I need to make a t-shirt that says "Yeah, I know. You're right and I'm wrong."

Let’s market them.