Culture, race, religion

[Jumi]

How can we collectively stop talking about racism when White Nationalists and Neo-Nazis have parades throwing the issue in our face all the time?

That's a good question. They're fools and clowns who should be a forgotten part of history, but still... dangerous fools. The faster all extremists up who think everyone should be like them up and disappearthe better. They want confrontation and feel it strengthens them, I don't know the cure for them. All I know is some of them can be saved from their hate.

Prejudice against those different from us is likely, to a degree, hardwired into us. We are coalitional animals and many cognitive forces have developed to enable us to be this way. These create in/out group ways of thinking which then self-perpetuate. We didn't evolve to live in modern, complex societies after all.

That's true, although there have existed places like Ancient Egypt, they've been more of an exception. But humans have developed technology this far, we'll have to solve the problematic of our genetics sometime in the future.

For most of human history and pre-history, ethnocentrism and tribalism were probably essential survival strategies that prevented most group members from wandering off into extinction or (heaven forbid) assimilation into an opposing group. We can't help it - but I don't think ignoring our cultural heritage (and baggage) is realistic either - maybe movie stars can rise above all that (???) but most of us are not movie stars. What we need to do is develop a mature way of viewing and handling human ethnic and cultural diversity - pretending it is not there is not a genuine option I don't think.

True, our cultural baggage weighs heavily on us, but do you think we can embrace our cultures positive sides while accepting other cultures as a whole will work? As I see it, every culture in the world has negative sides, including my own. How do we deal with the negatives of our own group and those of others?

European colonialism is not just about slavery, but about purposeful systemic erasing of a culture's history, language, and people.

Indeed that's a sin of the European empires and something the US inherited. What they did in the Americas and elsewhere is insane.

This is also why many Chinese and Koreans still hate the Japanese for their empires past, even if they don't remain in control there.

Exactly but I want to extend off what you're saying concerning tribalism is that human beings especially with the growing population shouldn't be tribalistic anymore considering we are much closer to each other. Given the increased small amount of space because of population growth, and the advent of the technological age, we are closer to each other than what we realize.

It's going to take a lot of work. Our survival depends on it. Everyone needs to make sacrifices one way or the other, especially if human population is going to grow. Having us all mix like brothers and sisters will make things easier, that's my hope.

You know, I don't like to spell things out for people because if I do, it is disrespectful of their intelligence. So, let's try this again. Going back to Morgan Freeman in his interview about "stop talking about racism," it is akin (meaning the similitude) to ignoring it. You cannot stop nor ignore the subject of racism since it is still systemic in our U.S society.

I do think he means well. He's at a place where he's accepted it all and gone past it, even if most are still below the point in your country where they can get there.

So Morgan Freeman wants us to stop talking about racism? Perhaps he himself wants to make a trip down there and speak to the white nationalists about their behavior. In other words regardless how you feel in the United States and parts of the world, racism will always be in our faces. Humanity has yet to universally accept each other as members of the same species.

That's not a bad idea actually. Although I don't understand the "Clan" that exists in your country, it seems worthwhile getting people to leave there...

I have yet to feel like a complete human being amongst my white peers as I harbor the pain of my parents and grandparents of the residual harmful effects of segregation. I believe there are some whites who are too afraid to look in the mirror of their own ancestral history of the 13 colonies. This is why multiculturalism exists because there is not one successful empire who built itself with its own people.

I agree and hope that this wound can some day heal.

This is why I tend to laugh at white nationalists who believe in their own revisionism when they believe that the "white man created the U.S" again, going back to my original point these people these nationalists will continue to throw their views in our face and the only way to combat racism is to confront it.

Some European white men called the shots, but do they think it was them? I think it's more sad that they think they're special because of something like that.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I'm going to exit stage left in this discussion. @Jumi forgive me if I do not address your responses but big brother has me upset right now.

 

[Jumi]

I'm going to exit stage left in this discussion. @Jumi forgive me if I do not address your responses but big brother has me upset right now.

No problem man. We can talk when you feel like it and have the time.

 

[Quintessence]

Did racism mainly start from religions or cultures or do you think it's more innate to humans?

This is a question that has no doubt been studied by scholars and experts, so I decided to do a bit of resource digging for curiosity's sake. Came across this article on PBS's website that's a short but well-written summary: RACE - The Power of an Illusion . Background Readings | PBS

A few important bullet points from that article for those who can't find the time to read it:

• Racism is only found in Western culture and after the Middle Ages; there is no clear evidence of it existing in other cultures or before that time.
• During the Renaissance and Reformation, Europeans came into contact with darker pigmented humans more often and started making judgements about them; laws enshrining discrimination cropped up in the late 17th century. The rationale was largely Biblical.
• Enlightenment thinkers were unable to overturn the trends of racism. Rationales for racism started becoming secular on top of being Biblical.
• In the 19th century, nationalism and imperialism intensified racism. Romantic cultural nationalism in particular codified many forms of racist thought.
• The climax of racism was the 20th century, with overtly racist regimes and in particular, Nazi Germany.
• Racism does not require support of law to persist. It is still present in Western culture today, even though racist regimes have fallen.

 

[HonestJoe]

At which point in history did race start to become an issue?

When Neanderthals and Homosapians first encountered each other? I guess the problem would have technically been “species” rather than “race” before that.

Did racism mainly start from religions or cultures or do you think it's more innate to humans?

The underlying causes – healthy fear of the unknown and creative imagination – are innatly human (and possibly some other intelligent animals too). Culture put structured frameworks around that basis, making it much more prevalent and effective, much like how we went from hitting each other with branches and rocks to blowing each other up with high explosives and nuclear weapons.

If you feel it's important why is there a need to have pride in a "race's" accomplishments when they're not our own anyway?

A very good point, first made by one of my ancestors.

 

[siti]

human beings especially with the growing population shouldn't be tribalistic anymore

our cultural baggage weighs heavily on us, but do you think we can embrace our cultures positive sides while accepting other cultures as a whole will work?

Absolutely! Agree with both of these comments - but like I said - to overcome our innate tribalism what we need is a mature approach to cultural and ethnic diversity - what we have, what we vote for - are chest-thumping alpha males. That's probably what we need to fix first.

 

[Enoch07]

Racism is only found in Western culture and after the Middle Ages; there is no clear evidence of it existing in other cultures or before that time.

That's not true.

Some Eastern cultures even to this day, think that different ethnicities should not breed together. It's a subtle racism but still racism.

 

[Augustus]

This is a question that has no doubt been studied by scholars and experts, so I decided to do a bit of resource digging for curiosity's sake...

Racism is only found in Western culture and after the Middle Ages; there is no clear evidence of it existing in other cultures or before that time.

Might be of interest:




The necessity of recognising that the social construction of racial identities should be understood as a global process being produced by many societies outside the West, rather than from ‘colonial’ theories of European expansion, is exemplified effectively in examination of the case of China. The development of racial theories and race ideas in East Asia, particularly China and also Japan has been established by a growing group of scholars, including He (1995), Dikötter (1992, 1997), Weiner (1997, 2004), Chow (1997) and Sato (1997). The centrality of the race idea in the development of Chinese society has drawn on notions of blood, barbarism, skin colour, lineage, purity, pollution and pseudo- scientific classifications, for example ideas based on differences in hair and odour...

from antiquity China’s pre-modern elite developed the notion of colour consciousness and a white–black dualism, with white complex- ion being identified as beautiful and highly valued and dark complex- ions being negatively valued. This colour consciousness inscribed class differentiation between the elite and peasants or slaves, and reflected widespread cultural aesthetics. The Confucian symbolic universe, set out in the Five Classics, contains key elements of Chinese racial, ethnocen- tric discourse – here black was the ‘negative pole of humanity’. Early sources equated Africans with blackness, slavery and the lowest social standing and it ‘existed well before Westerners established themselves at the frontiers of Empire’ (Dikötter 1992, p. 17). Westerners’ ‘ash-white’ complexions were seen as physically defective. Sources from the tenth century onwards increasingly referred to the symbolic value of yellow, with its attached meanings of superiority, progress and nobility, and to China as the ‘yellow centre’ (huángzho ̄ng) as distinct from barbarians who lived elsewhere and had different cultures and customs. In the con- text of increasing interaction with the West, Chinese people abandoned the claim to be ‘White’ as they and Europeans came to refer to them as ‘Yellows’. This was a firmly positive form of identification for many Chinese with deep symbolic roots in Chinese culture, and at that same time invoked and positioned a racial inferiority amongst Europeans. The idea of a yellow race developed rapidly in Europe with the French sci- entist Bernier distinguishing four races including the ‘yellows’ in 1688 (Dikötter 1992, p. 55). Racial Sinicisation: Han Power and Racial and Ethnic Domination in China - Ian Law

 

[ajay0]

How can we overcome the perpetration of discrimination and rise above it?

At which point in history did race start to become an issue?

Did racism mainly start from religions or cultures or do you think it's more innate to humans?

Is the big picture more important, ie. philosophical lines of thought or are individual interactions more important?

If you feel it's important why is there a need to have pride in a "race's" accomplishments when they're not our own anyway?

I would say discrimination is a psychological malady brought about by social conditioning.

It is important to see that discrimination is not just practiced against other races, but also within one's race , as shown by snobbery and exclusivity practiced by the 'haves' with respect to the 'have-nots' , aristocrats with respect to the lowly born, rich with respect to the poor.

This comes with wrong identification with the false conceptual/psychological self which is a creation of social conditioning, rather than with the authentic self.

Religion was originally a means to uncover this authentic self, but it has now degenerated in the hands of ignoramuses into an another tool for conditioning and fostering exclusivist conceptual identifications, which is the root cause of discrimination and the 'Us versus them' syndrome.