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Cult Psychology (amateur) Studies

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
Allen turing was forced to go chemical castration after he was arrested for getting beat up by a boyfriend. Ironically he should have just said got mugged or a friend came over and we fought. But being as smart as he was he just said what he was not suppose to say. Commited suicide 2 yeaes later. The creator of the enigma machime that decimated germans code. Saved millions of lives and then That happened to him.

Just read this:

"Turing was later convinced by the advice of his brother and his own solicitor, and he entered a plea of guilty.[135] The case, Regina v. Turing and Murray, was brought to trial on 31 March 1952.[136] Turing was convicted and given a choice between imprisonment and probation. His probation would be conditional on his agreement to undergo hormonal physical changes designed to reduce libido. He accepted the option of injections of what was then called stilboestrol (now known as diethylstilbestrol or DES), a synthetic oestrogen; this feminization of his body was continued for the course of one year. The treatment rendered Turing impotent and caused breast tissue to form,[137] fulfilling in the literal sense Turing's prediction that "no doubt I shall emerge from it all a different man, but quite who I've not found out".[138][139] Murray was given a conditional discharge.[140]"

That is an evil punishment.... I am shocked. Never knew that homosexuality was a crime still in the 1950's.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Very sad. Sometimes I wonder whether the parrot knowledge as opposed to being taught how to critically think. Having a PHD doesn't necessarily mean that one is trained to think critically.
I wanted to add i think the school of plato was originally started to
Combat parrot thinking. But that too can be over run by parrot thinking as well. Plotinus had to articulate neo platonism in 200 ad to combat it.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Just read this:

"Turing was later convinced by the advice of his brother and his own solicitor, and he entered a plea of guilty.[135] The case, Regina v. Turing and Murray, was brought to trial on 31 March 1952.[136] Turing was convicted and given a choice between imprisonment and probation. His probation would be conditional on his agreement to undergo hormonal physical changes designed to reduce libido. He accepted the option of injections of what was then called stilboestrol (now known as diethylstilbestrol or DES), a synthetic oestrogen; this feminization of his body was continued for the course of one year. The treatment rendered Turing impotent and caused breast tissue to form,[137] fulfilling in the literal sense Turing's prediction that "no doubt I shall emerge from it all a different man, but quite who I've not found out".[138][139] Murray was given a conditional discharge.[140]"

That is an evil punishment.... I am shocked. Never knew that homosexuality was a crime still in the 1950's.
Homosexuality was classified as a mental disorder in the american dsm till 1974. We aint that sharp.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
I am not sure you can teach it literally or if you do it has to be way different than how we teach. We have serious issues there.

Critical thinking can actually be taught, as there are those who teach it. I think that in basic education even, alternative views should be allowed to be explored and things taught should be questioned. Kids are crammed with so much work and homework that they do not have time to reflect on what they are learning so that they can analyze the validity of what they are taught. This is actually a form of undue influenced as stated in the BITE link on my OP.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
I wanted to add i think the school of plato was originally started to
Combat parrot thinking. But that too can be over run by parrot thinking as well. Plotinus had to articulate neo platonism in 200 ad to combat it.

I am going to research that. It sounds useful.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I am going to research that. It sounds useful.
Dont research to hard or you will be listening to a parrot if ya arent carefull!!!! Socrates is worth reading without commemtary. Read sympisium and read meno up till he says to bad you wont be here next week for the mysteries then all would be clear.

What are the mysteries!
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
That is a touchy subject. I think that even the history of dealing with mental disorders were cruel back then.

Check the history of mental asylums and treatment:

Lunatic asylum - Wikipedia
Mental health - Wikipedia

Lobotomies are messed up. Can't believe people were OK with hammering in people's heads.
Well today the psych doctors do brain surgery while using unwashed bare hands, using the brain as an ash tray whole knocking down shots!!! More meds they bellow the infection is getting worse more meds!!!

I have evidence. 6 months listening to vsrious bipolar groups totally avout 200 all said in various degrees "my brain" oh i traced that infection back to its source. Its eminating from the university. Your brsin does this our brsins do that we have studied the brain and is doung thid or that!!!!

psychotic? .well its definitely confused that can lead to social cultural breakdowns, it leads to diassociation from self and reality intellectually if unchecked. Thus mental illness in a portion of society and worse. Culture. Breathing greatly misunderstood! .hikes in the wilderness needed but rarer today. Jesus himself would step out on occasion just to get clear headed. 2000 years ago like a great psyche doc he was! Never too long with the patients! That has been the role of shamans guides thru the unconcious.
 

Road Less Traveled

Active Member
It’s seems at least to me that almost everything has ‘cult-like’ attributes. Some more discreet and subtle than others. Most people would have no idea, completely ignorant to being under psychological spells of control. Many are too far gone. And saying anything doesn’t help a whole lot, it just activates and triggers the defense mechanism within. It’s like being in a dead zombie mode... ‘must defend doctrines.’ Must parrot doctrines.’ ‘Must parrot what our leaders say.’ ‘Must attack and mock others.’
 

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
The FLDS and the Kirkland Cult are dangerous cults branching from Mormonism. The leader of the Kirkland cult was a disgusting narcissist.

I have encountered strong cult influences with Sunni Muslims here in Cape Town. Also if one checks out Speakers corner debates between Sunni's and other people then strong cult qualities show as well. There is also a case that the Sunni hadiths point Muhammed out to show traits of a Narcissistic cult leader from the quotes I have heard. But the Hadiths come from so many different sources that I don't know which side of the argument are cherry picking texts. And the problem is that the Sunni muslims here are not knowledgeable about their religion from a textual criticism point of view, relying on Imams to give them their knowledge. Also the seeming Arabisation of members through embracing Arab names, Arab clothing and using the Arab language can fall under behaviour control, but isn't necessary so. They also white wash the history of Islam believing that all facts contradicting their view is lies. But I also know that Islam has a loooong history of great scholars and discussion, which is the opposite to cults, so I suspect that there is something I am missing here. I suspect that modern Islam has become like modern Christianity, in that many modern and influential believers are not reflective of the history of the group.

Apparently Wahhabi and the Salafist movement has infiltrated the Sunni mindset and perverted it according to some Sunni's and Shia. Wahhabism definitely is a dangerous cult.

Having chatted to Shia muslims, I do not encounter a cult mentality with them besides knowing about certain practices which are strange but do not reflect undue influence. And they have different Hadiths, thus a different view of Muhammed.

I would be interested if somebody could flesh this out for me as I am struggling to examine this suspicion.

I converted to Islam, from long time Christianity, in 2005 after being fed up with the "Christian" response to 9/11. Unfortunately I converted into a very radical and conservative sect of Islam, and especially controlling of women. They eventually found I was not conservative enough for them. I won't label them but some would say they were Salafi.

I fell in with Mormons and found the membership to be sweet and loving but their upper leadership are right fools.

These I stand afar off, knowing there is God and that is about it.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
I would say that many Evangelical Christians have been brainwashed and so are in a cult. They do not seem to understand to read the Bible to see what it says. They simply follow what they are told by other Evangelicals without any thought of what is truly Biblical. They do not know what Jesus said but will say that they are Bible believing Christians without any actual understanding of Jesus.
That is where I started in life, evangelical. My parents were baptists but got involved in an evangelical type church. I went to a small christian school sponsored by the church and sat including school chapel about 3-4 sermons per week for many years. I later left, went to a baptist church about a year....then converted to the christadelphians who are somewhat similar to JW's and to Church of Christ but not the same. I have also spent a year with some liberal quakers. I've also met various kinds of Christians, pagans, Jews, Muslims, couple of Vedics (Hindus), lots of atheists, some witches, some satanists, some gang members etc. I've met homeless people, been homeless, been many things none very lofty or successfully. When they passed out the pranks they must have thought I said "Thanks!" Anyways I've had my brushes with cults.

Families are cults. Everything else builds on that, and you can't live without a family. Even an orphan has some kind of a family, even if its just an administrator shuffling their file or clicking 'Status'. We start out looking at grownups as if they are gods. They're so tall and strong. They seem like everything they do is better than what we do when we're small. Its so easy to believe and so comfortable. I can't even be honest with myself about whether I'd go back. I say I wouldn't, but its like a drug. Its like a great big chair made just for you, and believing you sit back and are held. That's childhood, and that's how childhood ought to be at least at first. It should be so soft and wonderful, and you should have everything you need with some minor challenges of course. :p Children should have little problems not big ones.

The trouble comes when children are kept immature. When they're not given responsibility and not taught anything or played with, then there are problems that stem from that. Its especially bad when they are bred to be dependent. That is a favorite tool of slavers throughout the millennia. The enslaver works to convince the slave that the enslaver is an essential part of life. Sometimes the enslaver believes their own lie, too. When I was a child I really needed parents, but I'm not a child now. I need to take responsibility for my own life.

"You are IN now." Most groups have joining rituals. Its all about sweaty palms. They trot you up front to cement your membership and make you feel like you are responsible to keep showing up. Its not good. If you're a member its obvious. There's no need to play limbo. You just fit in. Now...if you want to work in the nursery or serve then of course there needs to be some kind of check, such as a criminal background check. That is administrative though. They take donations from anybody, and that should be more than enough of a joining ritual for most purposes. What's with all the pressure?
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
Dont research to hard or you will be listening to a parrot if ya arent carefull!!!! Socrates is worth reading without commemtary. Read sympisium and read meno up till he says to bad you wont be here next week for the mysteries then all would be clear.

What are the mysteries!
Thanks for the heads up! The mysteries is a common term I have heard among many esoteric groups. I think it means that one has to be initiated in order to know more.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
Well today the psych doctors do brain surgery while using unwashed bare hands, using the brain as an ash tray whole knocking down shots!!! More meds they bellow the infection is getting worse more meds!!!

I have evidence. 6 months listening to vsrious bipolar groups totally avout 200 all said in various degrees "my brain" oh i traced that infection back to its source. Its eminating from the university. Your brsin does this our brsins do that we have studied the brain and is doung thid or that!!!!

psychotic? .well its definitely confused that can lead to social cultural breakdowns, it leads to diassociation from self and reality intellectually if unchecked. Thus mental illness in a portion of society and worse. Culture. Breathing greatly misunderstood! .hikes in the wilderness needed but rarer today. Jesus himself would step out on occasion just to get clear headed. 2000 years ago like a great psyche doc he was! Never too long with the patients! That has been the role of shamans guides thru the unconcious.

They use unwashed hands?! I thought they realised their error years ago!

The physical brain actually has a big role to play in psychological problems. I watched a ted talk about brain scans once. The speaker said that psychiatrists said that his nephew had to go an asylum because he had psychopathic and murderous tendencies. He was still under the age of ten. So they guy disagreed and took his nephew to have a brain scan and he found a cist on the brain. They removed the cist and the kid became normal. Apparently doctors are using theory to diagnose a problem rather than using brain scans which is an objective scientific solution.

There are high levels of mental illness among cult groups because of disassociation, cognitive dissonance and other things. Their belief conflicts with their reality. The cult leaders will tell them they are happy, but then they are not, and they think there is something wrong with them, which leads to depression and whole lotta other things. It is reflected in culture.

Taking a breather in the wilderness is what is needed. Cults don't want their members to take a breather as it gives them time to think.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
It’s seems at least to me that almost everything has ‘cult-like’ attributes. Some more discreet and subtle than others. Most people would have no idea, completely ignorant to being under psychological spells of control. Many are too far gone. And saying anything doesn’t help a whole lot, it just activates and triggers the defense mechanism within. It’s like being in a dead zombie mode... ‘must defend doctrines.’ Must parrot doctrines.’ ‘Must parrot what our leaders say.’ ‘Must attack and mock others.’

This is so true. 100% agree.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
I converted to Islam, from long time Christianity, in 2005 after being fed up with the "Christian" response to 9/11. Unfortunately I converted into a very radical and conservative sect of Islam, and especially controlling of women. They eventually found I was not conservative enough for them. I won't label them but some would say they were Salafi.

I fell in with Mormons and found the membership to be sweet and loving but their upper leadership are right fools.

These I stand afar off, knowing there is God and that is about it.

Ironically it is good to have those experiences so you can learn to satay away from them. Same in my case but with another group.

I am actually going to chat with Katzpur about the BITE model and Mormonism. She found the model fascinating and agrees that some point apply to the Mormon church.

I am in the same boat as you actually. I know there is a God but that is about it.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
... possible groups which could qualify as cults.
I don’t have any ideas about groups, but there are some kinds of behavior programming that see doing widespread damage. One is disease branding. Another is media and faction stories. Another is nationalism. Another is marketing campaigns. Another is public education. Another is programming people to be consumer treadmill robots. Another is programming people to think of denouncing some group or category of people as a social responsibility and a virtue in itself.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
And I would be interested to know whether using the BITE model makes you think of possible groups which could qualify as cults. It would help me greatly in my hobby of studying cults as well.
Does the BITE model have any other uses, besides labeling groups as cults?
The BITE page says that all the behavior programming techniques can be beneficial or harmful, depending on how they’re used.
Destructive mind control can be determined when the overall effect of these four components promotes dependency and obedience to some leader or cause ...
It might take a lot of research to find out how much an organization is promoting dependency and obedience. How much dependency and obedience makes it a dangerous cult, and how could any of us measure that?
 
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Samael_Khan

Goosebender
I don’t have any ideas about groups, but there are some kinds of behavior programming that see doing widespread damage. One is disease branding. Another is media and faction stories. Another is nationalism. Another is marketing campaigns. Another is public education. Another is programming people to be consumer treadmill robots. Another is programming people to think of denouncing some group or category of people as a social responsibility and a virtue in itself.

These would fall under undue influence. Society uses undue influence to in the above areas to control.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
Does the BITE model have any other uses, besides labeling groups as cults?
The BITE page says that all the behavior programming techniques can be beneficial or harmful, depending on how they’re used.

It might take a lot of research to find out how much an organization is promoting dependency and obedience. How much dependency and obedience makes it a dangerous cult, and how could any of us measure that?

Good questions.

The BITE model was specifically designed as an aid to identify a dangerous cult. Each aspect of the BITE model can be checked out independently to see their psychologically damaging aspects. For instance shunning has really negative side effects which aren't beneficial to an individual and harm them. So the BITE model identifies the harmful psychological aspects identified among cults. Also, if you study various different cults independent of the BITE model, then you would automatically pick up certain aspects of the BITE model as a pattern among them.

I have my own idea of what aspects to immediately look out for as an identifier of a dangerous cult. These identifier points I think many people would be against as they either contradict logic or are known to cause psychological damage. As soon as I see one of these aspects I would immediately identify the group as a cult:

- Information control: Fear of outside information, only wanting their adherents to consider information approved by the group, condemning all information contradicting the groups view and vilifying opposers without addressing the opposers claims, condemning contact ex members. Truth stand up to scrutiny and these points show that the group does not want to be scrutinized, which makes it suspect.

- Whitewashing the groups history:Not addressing opposing facts or contradicting official facts without valid evidence. This is a paranoia complex. Using the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. Saying that the group has done nothing wrong while ignoring alternative facts and dismissing them as the enemies propoganda. It isn't logical.

- The history of the leader: If the leader is a known to be a sexual deviant or has special sexual privileges that the followers do not. This is illogical and a form of exploitation.

- Shunning: Definitely not a loving practice and is a form of information control. It is basically emotional bullying. Many who are shunned from groups commit suicide. Its that bad.

Information control and Shunning is so important to the control of dangerous cults that if they aren't employed by the group then that group most likely is not a dangerous cult. There is nothing more undermining to dangerous cults than allowing their followers to investigate the views of opposers and ex member of the group. White washing their history and the deviant behaviour of the leader are important because if they exist then obviously the group itself is not based on truth and information control and shunning are bound to follow. Having a deviant leader though is not necessary for a group to be a dangerous cult though, but it wouldn't be as dangerous as the more extreme dangerous cults.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Good questions.

The BITE model was specifically designed as an aid to identify a dangerous cult. Each aspect of the BITE model can be checked out independently to see their psychologically damaging aspects. For instance shunning has really negative side effects which aren't beneficial to an individual and harm them. So the BITE model identifies the harmful psychological aspects identified among cults. Also, if you study various different cults independent of the BITE model, then you would automatically pick up certain aspects of the BITE model as a pattern among them.

I have my own idea of what aspects to immediately look out for as an identifier of a dangerous cult. These identifier points I think many people would be against as they either contradict logic or are known to cause psychological damage. As soon as I see one of these aspects I would immediately identify the group as a cult:

- Information control: Fear of outside information, only wanting their adherents to consider information approved by the group, condemning all information contradicting the groups view and vilifying opposers without addressing the opposers claims, condemning contact ex members. Truth stand up to scrutiny and these points show that the group does not want to be scrutinized, which makes it suspect.

- Whitewashing the groups history:Not addressing opposing facts or contradicting official facts without valid evidence. This is a paranoia complex. Using the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. Saying that the group has done nothing wrong while ignoring alternative facts and dismissing them as the enemies propoganda. It isn't logical.

- The history of the leader: If the leader is a known to be a sexual deviant or has special sexual privileges that the followers do not. This is illogical and a form of exploitation.

- Shunning: Definitely not a loving practice and is a form of information control. It is basically emotional bullying. Many who are shunned from groups commit suicide. Its that bad.

Information control and Shunning is so important to the control of dangerous cults that if they aren't employed by the group then that group most likely is not a dangerous cult. There is nothing more undermining to dangerous cults than allowing their followers to investigate the views of opposers and ex member of the group. White washing their history and the deviant behaviour of the leader are important because if they exist then obviously the group itself is not based on truth and information control and shunning are bound to follow. Having a deviant leader though is not necessary for a group to be a dangerous cult though, but it wouldn't be as dangerous as the more extreme dangerous cults.
Would you label any organization that sometimes uses some of those techniques in harmful ways, a dangerous cult”?
 
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