Cult and abusive church signs

[Brickjectivity]

So other than the obvious signs, which I tend to agree with overall what I'm getting here is that being friendly and thanking you for coming are bad things? Being friendly would be one of the good signs for me.

I somewhat agree with you here. Junk mail is not great, and I think that's what they are talking about. If someone has asked to be contacted, such as by filling out a contact card then that is another story. Sometimes if you visit a church they will give you a contact form, and it will have a check box that says "I would like a visit" etc.

To me, if you go to a church once, and they blow up your phone for the next 3 months saying what a pleasure it is to have you and how you should come back, it might be a bit of a red flag.

Yeah its overkill.

There is an industry, however, which caters to religious organizations. This industry is probably what drives a lot of these kinds of emails. There is church support software, church mailing designers, etc. It could simply be that whoever is behind the emails lacks sense. On the other hand they might do it in spite of the annoyance in order to occasionally get a new member out of it. Perhaps if they email 300 visitors one will come back because of the email spam?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I've been in some of the really restrictive dress code ones... Now I go to a church where everybody wears what they want to. The pastor usually has on Blue jeans.

I'll bet your pastor would love it if you reworked this song to become Reverend Blue Jeans:

 

[Brickjectivity]

I've been in some of the really restrictive dress code ones... Now I go to a church where everybody wears what they want to. The pastor usually has on Blue jeans.

People no longer remember why nicer clothes get warn in church, so it makes sense not to keep doing it for no reason. For longest time people did though. There are always tiny traditions that get passed along until no one remembers why. I remember seeing a documentary that interviewed some Amish people who no longer remembered why they did certain things in their church service. When a certain scripture was read all the women turned their backs. They continued the practice not knowing why. All churches do things like this. For example maybe they use leavened or unleavened bread or juice or wine, and then it becomes a habit and the next generation thinks communion has to be with that kind of bread or drink and doesn't remember why.

 

[Wildswanderer]

People no longer remember why nicer clothes get warn in church, so it makes sense not to keep doing it for no reason. For longest time people did though. There are always tiny traditions that get passed along until no one remembers why. I remember seeing a documentary that interviewed some Amish people who no longer remembered why they did certain things in their church service. When a certain scripture was read all the women turned their backs. They continued the practice not knowing why. All churches do things like this. For example maybe they use leavened or unleavened bread or juice or wine, and then it becomes a habit and the next generation thinks communion has to be with that kind of bread or drink and doesn't remember why.

Yeah I would probably have no problem doing the traditions if I understood the reason. I've visited more liturgical churches and it's not that God can't work there too.

 

[InChrist]

I think some signs you might b in an abusive religion would be that they discourage you from asking questions You should be able to ask questions. Trying to get a lot of personal information from you also. I don't give out a bunch of information on me in the beginning ever. I know some places have you fill out paperwork.


Control over my appearance, people dressing alike no I don't go by dress codes. Dressing up conservative is good enough. What are some more signs?

Attempting to control information members have from outside the group or leadership. Claiming to be the “true” church or only organization whereby one can gain salvation and spiritual truth.




Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, The: Recognizing and Escaping Spiritual Manipulation and False Spiritual Authority Within the Church - eBook

 

[Brickjectivity]

Attempting to control information members have from outside the group or leadership. Claiming to be the “true” church or only organization whereby one can gain salvation and spiritual truth.

Yes, and warning members not to marry outside of the denomination.

Also believing that children will inherit the exact same beliefs can lead to extreme pressure applied to children. It also can be an excuse for abusive discipline. Sometimes a religious group allows only one way to think for children and adults both. The scriptures provide very little (or no) guidance on how much is too much discipline, so it can be assumed that discipline is the way to get children to same-think. I think children can be taught how to behave and be nice and good, but they can't be taught what to think or have it paddled into them. I think they can have their ability to think paddled out though, and that leads to some ugly problems...some lifelong emotional problems and motivational problems. Some don't want to live. Some don't know how. Its very sad.

 

[InChrist]

Yes, and warning members not to marry outside of the denomination.

Also believing that children will inherit the exact same beliefs can lead to extreme pressure applied to children. It also can be an excuse for abusive discipline. Sometimes a religious group allows only one way to think for children and adults both. The scriptures provide very little (or no) guidance on how much is too much discipline, so it can be assumed that discipline is the way to get children to same-think. I think children can be taught how to behave and be nice and good, but they can't be taught what to think or have it paddled into them. I think they can have their ability to think paddled out though, and that leads to some ugly problems...some lifelong emotional problems and motivational problems. Some don't want to live. Some don't know how. Its very sad.

It is sad and I think can be very damaging to a child’s understanding concerning the truth about God and His love.

 

[Heyo]

To me, the basic idea is sound. But the list has a few items which go way way to far such as putting down meditation and prayer. And some organized religions (not cults) give new names to adherents.

The BITE model is not binary. Like many such sociological and psychological models/tests, it gives an answer of where on a spectrum a religion/organization/cult stands. Only in combination with other major red flags could the smaller items push it over the edge of being a cult.

 

[Heyo]

To me, if you go to a church once, and they blow up your phone for the next 3 months saying what a pleasure it is to have you and how you should come back, it might be a bit of a red flag.

It might be. But it could also be that they are just desperate to get your tithe to pay the rent for their building.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

It might be. But it could also be that they are just desperate to get your tithe to pay the rent for their building.

At the sermon when I went, they actually did talk a lot about tithing, so you may have a point, and I did give them $40. However, the thing is though, that there's no way of telling whether they really need the money, or if, as soon as I give it to them, it will go for a preacher trying to convert Africa to Christianity and that's it.

 

[Heyo]

So other than the obvious signs, which I tend to agree with overall what I'm getting here is that being friendly and thanking you for coming are bad things? Being friendly would be one of the good signs for me.

Being genuinely friendly is a good sign. Being overly friendly so that it feels fake, i.e. they are only friendly to get something from you, is a red flag. The threshold is pretty much a cultural thing.

 

[Riders]

Being genuinely friendly is a good sign. Being overly friendly so that it feels fake, i.e. they are only friendly to get something from you, is a red flag. The threshold is pretty much a cultural thing.

I was very lonely when I went to the United Pentecostal church service and they all laid hands on me men and women. It was mostly women. But I got lot of hugs and crying eyes so yea the emotionalism and friendship and hugs went a long way to pull me in. I was alone in my early twenties.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

I think some signs you might b in an abusive religion would be that they discourage you from asking questions You should be able to ask questions. Trying to get a lot of personal information from you also. I don't give out a bunch of information on me in the beginning ever. I know some places have you fill out paperwork.


Control over my appearance, people dressing alike no I don't go by dress codes. Dressing up conservative is good enough. What are some more signs?

I don't like the discouraging someone to ask questions. I would like them explaining that we can't always have all the answers we want.

I don't have any issue with "personal information" - I guess that depends on what you mean - but names and dates aren't that bad - for proper record keeping.

I believe that any religion can control what people wear during their worship services - especially the clothes of those who officiate the meetings or who perform certain ordinances.

I think it would be detrimental to their congregation to be super strict with all those who attend though.

I think asking people to attend "gatherings" or some sort of "retreat" would be a bad sign - a leader selecting favorites and such.

 

[Alex22]

What churches aren't cults? The Orthodox Church is pretty much one big cult, they discourage you from asking questions and brand you as a heretic as soon as you call out a priests bs

 

[Riders]

I don't like the discouraging someone to ask questions. I would like them explaining that we can't always have all the answers we want.

I don't have any issue with "personal information" - I guess that depends on what you mean - but names and dates aren't that bad - for proper record keeping.

I believe that any religion can control what people wear during their worship services - especially the clothes of those who officiate the meetings or who perform certain ordinances.

I think it would be detrimental to their congregation to be super strict with all those who attend though.

I think asking people to attend "gatherings" or some sort of "retreat" would be a bad sign - a leader selecting favorites and such.

If people don't choose to dress that way they can't control the dress code. But my old church controlled the dress code not just at church but everywhere.I wore long dresses no makeup or jewelry every day of my life. I never cut my hair and had to wear long dresses everywhere.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

If people don't choose to dress that way they can't control the dress code.

I'm not saying that a church should have a dress code - but they have every right to have one during their meetings.

If there is a church with a strict dress code for their meetings - they have the right to ask those who would refuse to dress accordingly to leave.

But my old church controlled the dress code not just at church but everywhere.I wore long dresses no makeup or jewelry every day of my life. I never cut my hair and had to wear long dresses everywhere.

That's weird. What church was it?

 

[Riders]

I'm not saying that a church should have a dress code - but they have every right to have one during their meetings.

If there is a church with a strict dress code for their meetings - they have the right to ask those who would refuse to dress accordingly to leave.

That's weird. What church was it?

United Penteostal church IINC. They also teach you have to be baptized in Jesus name not the FAther SOn and Holy Ghost and speak in tongues to be saved.

 

[Brickjectivity]

United Penteostal church IINC. They also teach you have to be baptized in Jesus name not the FAther SOn and Holy Ghost and speak in tongues to be saved.

I have heard of a church like that. Also it reminded me of an Isaac Air Freight recording which I've just found on youtube. You may enjoy this recording of an old Christian comedy troup pretending a game show in which contestants choose a saviour. Six minutes long...there's something in there about clothing and food restrictions kind of funny. I listened to this when I was a kid:

Spoiler: The Saving Game - Isaac Air Freight on youtube

...so if you don't want to see the video one of the saviors is asked "What must I do to be saved? (from hell)" and the savior (Savior #1) says "You gotta earn it doing religious things. First off: I want you to never sleep past 5:30, only eat vegetables and twinkies, cut your hair and only wear blue! If you're diligent you might make it!"

 

[Fallen Prophet]

United Penteostal church IINC. They also teach you have to be baptized in Jesus name not the FAther SOn and Holy Ghost and speak in tongues to be saved.

That's weird.

 

[Riders]

United Pentecostal Church International - Wikipedia

Here we are