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Crustaceans/Octopi Feel Pain

Martin

Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
Sentience and the ability to feel pain does not preclude it from being a food source imo. But it does mean we have ethical obligations.

We are a potential food source for animals and we often succumb to the will of bacteria/virus/fungi.

Most people are happy for countless pigs, cows, lambs as and chickens to be slaughtered so they can have a bit of meat on their plate.
 

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
I don't suppose you've considered that you could, in fact, put up with all that pain --- and get up and walk around --- but that you don't, simply because you were offered an anaesthtic?

We just don't suppose animals would need such a thing.
No, I know my pain tolerance is high but not as high as an animals.
 

VoidCat

Pronouns: he/him/they/them
I guarantee if you were castrated with no pain killers you would not be walking around fine two minutes later.
I don't know period cramps can mimick the pain of a heart attack and appendicitis but many folk with uteruses still walk around just fine

I get severe cramps about an 8 out of 10 in severity at times regarding pain but im forced to walk around like nothing is wrong.
 
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VoidCat

Pronouns: he/him/they/them
Also many chronically ill and chronically in pain their pain tolerance is high as hell cuz their daily is 8 and 9 regarding pain so they act like they hardly in any pain most days they got no choice if they want to function
 

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
Also many chronically ill and chronically in pain their pain tolerance is high as hell cuz their daily is 8 and 9 regarding pain so they act like they hardly in any pain most days they got no choice if they want to function
I live with pain all the time from arthritis and such.
I have been told my pain tolerance is high because I scratched my cornea of my eye and it was irritating but not incapacitating. I just don't think my tolerance comes anywhere close to what I've seen in animals.
The best we can do is try to keep them comfortable and kill the ones we eat as quickly as possible. That's more than predators do.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
That many seem to believe that so many non-human species don't feel pain, or experience many emotions quite similar to humans, is just another facet of believing humans are inherently different (and superior of course) from all other life. A convenient myth, just as many also believe that these 'others' are merely instinctual and can't ever display some of the intelligence we often possess. But apparently not the ones who believe this nonsense. And where religions have often aided this stupidity. :rolleyes:
Personally I envy animals that feel little or no pain.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
I guarantee if you were castrated with no pain killers you would not be walking around fine two minutes later.
How easily we humans argue ourselves out of feeling guitly for our own cruelty.

I think it is just as easy to suppose -- and much, much more likely -- that the reason an animal gets up after feeling such pain is because it can only feel it as a necessity for preserving its own life. Having just been dealt such a painful blow, it is reasonable for an animal to expect worse to follow, and so gets up to get away before it does. I suspect that if what you suggests had happened to me, and the knife was now approaching my throat, I could find it within me to move, too, no matter the pain.

And consider this, when we neuter our pets, we do use an anaesthetic -- and it's expensive. So why do we do that? Because we like our pets, and are afraid that they'd feel pain.
 

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
How easily we humans argue ourselves out of feeling guitly for our own cruelty.

I think it is just as easy to suppose -- and much, much more likely -- that the reason an animal gets up after feeling such pain is because it can only feel it as a necessity for preserving its own life. Having just been dealt such a painful blow, it is reasonable for an animal to expect worse to follow, and so gets up to get away before it does. I suspect that if what you suggests had happened to me, and the knife was now approaching my throat, I could find it within me to move, too, no matter the pain.

And consider this, when we neuter our pets, we do use an anaesthetic -- and it's expensive. So why do we do that? Because we like our pets, and are afraid that they'd feel pain.
People have pet pigs too... and no they don't really trying to get away after, just go back to eating.
I never said that they don't feel pain, but that they have a higher pain tolerance.
Also many animals are tougher physically. My one dog will lay down and melt a hole in the snow when it's 15° and stay there. Obviously if it was uncomfortable she wouldn't do that.
The thing I find amusing is that people who think we are just animals complain about how we treat animals... you won't find that in the animal kingdom. The predators aren't worried about how much pain they inflict... If we were just animals, we wouldn't either.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
People have pet pigs too... and no they don't really trying to get away after, just go back to eating.
I never said that they don't feel pain, but that they have a higher pain tolerance.
Also many animals are tougher physically. My one dog will lay down and melt a hole in the snow when it's 15° and stay there. Obviously if it was uncomfortable she wouldn't do that.
The thing I find amusing is that people who think we are just animals complain about how we treat animals... you won't find that in the animal kingdom. The predators aren't worried about how much pain they inflict... If we were just animals, we wouldn't either.
Well, I've been reading about a dozen articles on animals and pain just today, all by veterinarians, and they all concur that animals feel and process pain in ways very like humans.

But, no doubt you know better than they. You should probably tell them -- you don't want our vets being stupid, after all.
 

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
Well, I've been reading about a dozen articles on animals and pain just today, all by veterinarians, and they all concur that animals feel and process pain in ways very like humans.

But, no doubt you know better than they. You should probably tell them -- you don't want our vets being stupid, after all.
Very like humans isn't necessarily the same as humans. And I would tend believe the person who has many years of experience with animals wild and domestic.. . like myself.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Very like humans isn't necessarily the same as humans. And I would tend believe the person who has many years of experience with animals wild and domestic.. . like myself.
And you would put this in the same category as the studying done by Jane Goodall - in her 60-year study of chimpanzees? :oops:
 

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
And you would put this in the same category as the studying done by Jane Goodall - in her 60-year study of chimpanzees? :oops:
I always trust experience over what someone on the internet claims.
Real experience is the only thing we can trust as reality. The rest we take on faith.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
I always trust experience over what someone on the internet claims.
Real experience is the only thing we can trust as reality. The rest we take on faith.
And I was trusting real veterinarians over what someone on the internet (you) claimed. And you rejoined by doubling down, and saying, "I would tend believe the person who has many years of experience with animals wild and domestic.. . like myself."

My teardrop response was in sorrow for any animals that might come under your care, because clearly you are seeing what you want to see, rather than what vets say, because it more comfortably permits you to carry on as usual, without considering whether animals really do experience a lot of pain, but respond differently because they haven't got the reasoning abilities that humans do.
 

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
And I was trusting real veterinarians over what someone on the internet (you) claimed. And you rejoined by doubling down, and saying, "I would tend believe the person who has many years of experience with animals wild and domestic.. . like myself."

My teardrop response was in sorrow for any animals that might come under your care, because clearly you are seeing what you want to see, rather than what vets say, because it more comfortably permits you to carry on as usual, without considering whether animals really do experience a lot of pain, but respond differently because they haven't got the reasoning abilities that humans do.
Alrighty then. I assure you that the animals under my care are living thier best lives now. Some of them even sleep in the house. And if we decided one needed to be put down it would be done as quickly as possible.
And I never once said animals don't experience pain. I still trust my own experiences more than something I read on the internet.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Alrighty then. I assure you that the animals under my care are living thier best lives now. Some of them even sleep in the house. And if we decided one needed to be put down it would be done as quickly as possible.
And I never once said animals don't experience pain. I still trust my own experiences more than something I read on the internet.
The articles to which I was referring were not on the internet, I have a very close friend who, as a veterinarian, teaches veterinary science at 3 Canadian universities, and travels around the world lecturing on the subject. The articles were from her library.
 
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