critical thinking vs faith

[Quantrill]

so if i saw a banana for the first time
didn't know what the heck it was because i willfully didn't want to know what it was?



and if someone told me the banana was a sour fruit with out me personally experiencing the taste i am just to take their word for it?

We are not talking about banana's. We are talking about God who is active in the lives of the believers through the Spirit.

Quantrill

 

[waitasec]

You asked what criteria I use to determine the Bible is the Word of God. As I said, faith in Christ comes first. A faith which is from God. Which knows no criteria. Thus my spirit is born-again, of God. And my spirit recognizes the voice of God in the Bible.

Quantrill

faith does require a criteria...as your belief depends on it...

it's like saying;
i am a bird because i believe i am

 

[Quantrill]

what is the criteria that you use to determine the bible is the witness of the spirit...

what you seem to be saying is that:
joe says x
and you just believe joe without any reason, you just do.

I didn't say the Bible is the witness of the Spirit. I said the Bible and the witness of the Spirit.

Quantrill

 

[waitasec]

I didn't say the Bible is the witness of the Spirit. I said the Bible and the witness of the Spirit.

Quantrill

i said this:
belief is a verb, it is something you choose to do as the criteria for belief has been satisfied

you put god in there not me.

i am only asking about how one comes to determine what they believe is true.

 

[Quantrill]

so if i told you the only way to god is to sell all your worldly possessions,
which is something jesus himself said, and i where to ask, have you?
what would you say?

I would say you misundestood what was being said. Give the chapter and verse.

Quantrill

 

[waitasec]

I didn't say the Bible is the witness of the Spirit. I said the Bible and the witness of the Spirit.

Quantrill

ok ... what is the criteria that you use to determine the bible and the witness of the spirit is believable?

 

[Quantrill]

faith does require a criteria...as your belief depends on it...

it's like saying;
i am a bird because i believe i am

No, a criteria is not required. Faith or belief is exercised as soon as it hears that which it believes. Its like saying a bird is a bird because it is a bird.

Quantrill

 

[waitasec]

I would say you misundestood what was being said. Give the chapter and verse.

Quantrill

luke 12: 22 Then Jesus said to his disciples: “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. 23 For life is more than food, and the body more than clothes. 24 Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds! 25 Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to your life? 26 Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest?
27 “Consider how the wild flowers grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you, not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 28 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today, and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, how much more will he clothe you—you of little faith! 29 And do not set your heart on what you will eat or drink; do not worry about it. 30 For the pagan world runs after all such things, and your Father knows that you need them. 31 But seek his kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well.

32 “Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom. 33 Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. 34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

since you take the word literally...my paypal account is....

 

[Quantrill]

i said this:
belief is a verb, it is something you choose to do as the criteria for belief has been satisfied

you put god in there not me.

i am only asking about how one comes to determine what they believe is true.

And I have told you. The Christian doesn't determine. The Christian believes the truth.

Quantrill

 

[waitasec]

No, a criteria is not required. Faith or belief is exercised as soon as it hears that which it believes. Its like saying a bird is a bird because it is a bird.

Quantrill

so a standard is not required for faith or belief, isn't that dangerous?


if i believe i am a bird without utilizing a standard to determine that i am a bird...i believe i am a bird.

 

[Quantrill]

ok ... what is the criteria that you use to determine the bible and the witness of the spirit is believable?

I don't use a criteria. I belive and know the Bible is the Word of God. The Spirit of God doesn't lie to his people.

Quantrill

 

[waitasec]

And I have told you. The Christian doesn't determine. The Christian believes the truth.

Quantrill

a person determines for them self that they are not a bird because they have set up a criteria that satisfies what determines a bird.

 

[waitasec]

I don't use a criteria. I belive and know the Bible is the Word of God. The Spirit of God doesn't lie to his people.

Quantrill

ill re-word your post in order for you to see what i am understanding you say...
i don't use a criteria. i belive and know i am a bird. my personal belief doesn't lie.

 

[Quantrill]

luke 12: 22 Then Jesus said to his disciples: “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. 23 For life is more than food, and the body more than clothes. 24 Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds! 25 Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to your life? 26 Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest?
27 “Consider how the wild flowers grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you, not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 28 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today, and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, how much more will he clothe you—you of little faith! 29 And do not set your heart on what you will eat or drink; do not worry about it. 30 For the pagan world runs after all such things, and your Father knows that you need them. 31 But seek his kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well.

32 “Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom. 33 Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. 34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

since you take the word literally...my paypal account is....

Because I hold to literal interpretation, I recognize nothing is said here about the only way to God. This pertains to the believer in this life. His walk in this life. The freedom from being anxious over the things of this world. It doesn't say anything about an only way to God. Sorry about your paypal.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

so a standard is not required for faith or belief, isn't that dangerous?


if i believe i am a bird without utilizing a standard to determine that i am a bird...i believe i am a bird.

If you believe your a bird, then that is dangerous. But if a bird knows and acts like a bird, it isn't.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

a person determines for them self that they are not a bird because they have set up a criteria that satisfies what determines a bird.

So, you needed a criteria to determine you are not a bird?

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

ill re-word your post in order for you to see what i am understanding you say...
i don't use a criteria. i belive and know i am a bird. my personal belief doesn't lie.

No. I know I am not a bird.

Quantrill

 

[waitasec]

Because I hold to literal interpretation, I recognize nothing is said here about the only way to God. This pertains to the believer in this life. His walk in this life. The freedom from being anxious over the things of this world. It doesn't say anything about an only way to God. Sorry about your paypal.

Quantrill

mark17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. 19 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.’[d]”

20 “Teacher,” he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.”

21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

 

[waitasec]

No. I know I am not a bird.

Quantrill

doesn't a bird have to satisfy a criteria, a standard, in order for a bird to be a bird
and based on that criteria is how you know you are not a bird?

what what is one of the criterion that you use to determine anything?

unless you are willing to concede that you adhere to double standards.
one standard for determining you are not a bird
and no criteria used to determine your belief in the bible

 

[dawny0826]

by definition critical thinking is,
disciplined thinking that is clear, rational, open-minded, and informed by evidence

by definition faith is,
a belief that is not based on proof:

so, would if be fair to say...?
'in the sphere of faith (a belief that requires no proof) critical thinking can be applied while in the sphere of critical thinking faith (a belief that requires no proof) cannot be applied.

and if so, what types of problems can arise when one does apply faith (a belief that requires no proof) in the sphere of critical thinking?




i for one would say yes it is a fair statement and the problem that would arise from applying faith to critical thinking is that critical thinking becomes faith.

I for one when use critical thinking in examining that which I believe. Critical thinking isn't synonomous with faith but is used when examining, questioning and growing within the auspicies of faith. I would not trust any notion that I had not thorough examined or questioned. Critical thinking is only a part of it.