Critical Race Theory?

[George-ananda]

So how do you address existing, entrenched and systemic racism?

IMO, In the year 2021 any existing, entrenched and systemic racism claims are overblown and will only grow bigger and more emotional with exaggerated claims. At this point we would be best served by ratcheting down the racial tension discussions.

The racial harmony situation was getting better every year before the ratcheting up by BLM type attitudes that want to blow things out of proportion and trying to create some kind of crisis situation and hence more unnecessary conflict.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

IMO, In the year 2021 any existing, entrenched and systemic racism claims are overblown and will only grow bigger and more emotional with exaggerated claims. At this point we would be best served by ratcheting down the racial tension discussions.

The racial harmony situation was getting better every year before the ratcheting up by BLM type attitudes that want to blow things out of proportion and trying to create some kind of crisis situation and hence more unnecessary conflict.

I find it very strange that I asked you a question and, rather than answer it, you just pointed somewhere else and said "what they are doing is bad".

I will rephrase the question.

Seeing as how it is a fact that systemic and entrenched racism are still a problem in the US, how would you address it?

And, for the record, "I don't think it's that bad and BLM have made it worse" is not an answer.

 

[George-ananda]

Seeing as how it is a fact that systemic and entrenched racism are still a problem in the US, how would you address it?

I did answer your question but perhaps you didn't understand.

Re-read your above sentence. I can not answer that question because I don't accept the premise in the question; 'it is a fact that systemic and entrenched racism are still a problem in the U.S.'.

There is no 'problem' that requires any change in public and legal policy in my opinion. That there will always be some incidents perpetrated by all sides in society is to me a normal part of society and we deal with that. Society will only get better when individuals get better and stoking flames moves that in the opposite direction

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I did answer your question but perhaps you didn't understand.

No, you did not. You proposed no solution to entrenched and systemic racism.

Re-read your above sentence. I can not answer that question because I don't accept the premise in the question; 'it is a fact that systemic and entrenched racism are still a problem in the U.S.'.

Then you're wrong, and thus this demonstrates the fundamental flaw with your approach to this topic: it prevents you from seeing, understanding and accepting reality.

There is no 'problem' that requires any change in public and legal policy in my opinion. That there will always be some incidents perpetrated by all sides in society is to me a normal part of society and we deal with that. Society will only get better when individuals get better and stoking flames moves that in the opposite direction

This addresses nothing, it just sweeps the issue under the carpet and pretends it is an issue of "individuls getting better".

It is not an individual choice that results in the disproportionately negative effects of poverty, policing, healthcare, welfare and representation falling most heavily on minority racial and social groups. It is direct result of historical and systemic racism.

Your attitude doesn't address this problem, it just ignores it to make yourself feel superior. But these problems are real, and they negatively impact the lives of many people. If you think it is unfair that a person should be, on average, poorer, more likely to be stopped by police, more likely to be found guilty of a crime, more likely to be shot by police, more likely to serve a longer prison sentence, less likely to get work, less likely to be able to obtain positions of power and more likely to die of preventable diseases - all just because of the colour of their skin - then you have to address that problem and admit that maybe you aren't all that superior.

But you'd rather just pretend thay all of that is just up to "individuals", which ultimately just means that you think minorities bring it on themselves, and you don't have to do or think anything about it. You'd rather generations more people felt the injustice of the lingering effects of historical racism than admit that there is a power imbalance that we ca actually, actively do something about.

You are a perfect example of why your ideology is wrong.

 

[George-ananda]

No, you did not. You proposed no solution to entrenched and systemic racism.


Then you're wrong, and thus this demonstrates the fundamental flaw with your approach to this topic: it prevents you from seeing, understanding and accepting reality.


This addresses nothing, it just sweeps the issue under the carpet and pretends it is an issue of "individuls getting better".

It is not an individual choice that results in the disproportionately negative effects of poverty, policing, healthcare, welfare and representation falling most heavily on minority racial and social groups. It is direct result of historical and systemic racism.

Your attitude doesn't address this problem, it just ignores it to make yourself feel superior. But these problems are real, and they negatively impact the lives of many people. If you think it is unfair that a person should be, on average, poorer, more likely to be stopped by police, more likely to be found guilty of a crime, more likely to be shot by police, more likely to serve a longer prison sentence, less likely to get work, less likely to be able to obtain positions of power and more likely to die of preventable diseases - all just because of the colour of their skin - then you have to address that problem and admit that maybe you aren't all that superior.

But you'd rather just pretend thay all of that is just up to "individuals", which ultimately just means that you think minorities bring it on themselves, and you don't have to do or think anything about it. You'd rather generations more people felt the injustice of the lingering effects of historical racism than admit that there is a power imbalance that we ca actually, actively do something about.

You are a perfect example of why your ideology is wrong.

Here's where we differ. If blacks are disproportionately less successful in society it may not be primarily because the system is rigged against them but because of consistently disproportionately poorer behavior and performance. And genetics may be one factor in that that we can not control.

White society in 2021 almost leans over a little backwards in general in their treatment of blacks. Other races like Asians outperform whites in American success rankings. Genetics are at play there too I suspect.

Edit: I am of the opinion that the unpopular Bell Curve Theory is the best understanding out there. Correctness before popularity for me.

We can probably distill our differences down to our different answer to the question: Is black disproportionate social problems mostly caused by an unjust society or by disproportionately poorer performance and behavior of blacks themselves?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Here's where we differ. If blacks are disproportionately less successful in society it may not be primarily because the system is rigged against them but because of consistently disproportionately poorer behavior and performance. And genetics may be one factor in that that we can not control.

The problem with what you just said: there is absolutely zero actual basis for it.

Also, it's massively racist.

White society in 2021 almost leans over a little backwards in general in their treatment of blacks.

Are you serious? Did you completely ignore the list of ways in which black people have it worse in my previous post?

Other races like Asians outperform whites in American success rankings. Genetics are at play there too I suspect.

Er, no. That actually is entirely because of America's long history of racist anti-asian immigration and re-patriation policies which were only repealed in the last generation or so, meaning that the majority of asian people in America today are economic migrants (or the children of econonic migrants) who CHOSE to move to America because they had the financial incentive and the means to do so. Because America literally engaged in KICKING OUT ALMOST ALL THE ASIAN PEOPLE WHO ALREADY LIVED THERE for decades, as well as interning many others.

The majority of black people in America, however, are the descendants of black people brought over during the slave trade, whose families lived through slavery, poverty, segregation, Jim Crow, redlining and countless other explicitly racist American policies throughout history.

Edit: I am of the opinion that the unpopular Bell Curve Theory is the best understanding out there. Correctness before popularity for me.

Except the bell curve theory has been roundly refuted and is no longer accepted as credible in academic circles.

We can probably distill our differences down to our different answer to the question: Is black disproportionate social problems mostly caused by an unjust society or by disproportionately poorer performance and behavior of blacks themselves?

Or, another way to put it: our differences are because I am not a racist, and you are.

 

[George-ananda]

The problem with what you just said: there is absolutely zero actual basis for it.

Also, it's massively racist.


Are you serious? Did you completely ignore the list of ways in which black people have it worse in my previous post?


Er, no. That actually is entirely because of America's long history of racist anti-asian immigration and re-patriation policies which were only appealed in the last generation or so, meaning that the majority of asian people in America today are economic migrants (or the children of econonic migrants) who CHOSE to move to America because they had the financial incentive and the means to do so. Because America literally engaged in KICKING OUT ALMOST ALL THE ASIAN PEOPLE WHO ALREADY LIVED THERE for decades, as well as interning many others.

The majority of black people in America, however, are the descendants of black people brought over during the slave trade, whose families lived through slavery, poverty, segregation, Jim Crow, redlining and countless other explicitly racist American policies throughout history.


Except the bell curve theory has been roundly refuted and is no longer accepted as credible in academic circles.


Or, another way to put it: our differences are because I am not a racist, and you are.

Well perhaps you overlooked where I said all humans have the same value but they are not identical either.

And by your name calling then I believe nature is the real racist here. I consider myself an objective observer with malice towards none. I'd rather believe what makes the most sense than taking popular opinion and that is that the differences come from heredity AND environment while you don't accept heredity as a factor.

Your view is good-spirited but not exactly the true and whole story. For most people believing as you do is probably best. But the excessive anger towards American society is harmful.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Well perhaps you overlooked where I said all humans have the same value but they are not identical either.

Except you believe that black people are genetically predisposed to "poorer behaviour and performance". So clearly you believe black people have innate negative values when compared to other races.

And by your name calling then I believe nature is the real racist here.

I never called you names. I called you racist. That is an accurate description of your position: you are a person who believes that certain races are genetically predisposed to "poorer behaviour". That is racist, by its very definition.

I consider myself an objective observer with malice towards none. I'd rather believe what makes the most sense than taking popular opinion and that is that the differences come from heredity AND environment while you don't accept heredity as a factor.

Because there is insufficient evidence to support it. Hence why it is largely an argument favoured by racists who wish to baselessly assert the superiority of one race over another. You are absolutely and demonstrably NOT objective, because the facts do not support your conclusions.

Your view is good-spirited but not exactly the true and whole story. For most people believing as you do is probably best. But the excessive anger towards American society is harmful.

Please point out any one thing I said that is untrue.

And how is accepting the truth harmful?

 

[Starlight]

Critical race theory is anti-white racism.

 

[Kooky]

Critical race theory is anti-white racism.

Sorry, but no, it isn't.

Do you want to guess again?

 

[Friend of Mara]

Both my dad and friend are high school teachers in Florida right now. One teaches history and the other teaches English. Their run down as given to them was that they were not allowed to teach that America was "fundamentally racist", "Based on racist principles" or that "its institutions are racist". So right now it is illegal for them to say that police racial profiling is real. It is illegal for them to teach about redlining. They aren't allowed to say in any way that the current USA has any racial issues. Both teachers are opting to ignore this request.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I'm just interested to hear what people think about this idea? (it's in the news again)

CRT is a set of three letters that instantly trigger white snowflakes who get the vapors every time someone claims that some old dead white people were mean to others. They think criticism should only extend to whatever boogeyman the snowflakes need today, like Antifa, which is what everyone who fought for the Allies should have been as fascists are objectively the bad guys, though the bad guys attended racist and otherwise conventions held in the US.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

My thoughts would be when did schools decide to teach activism rather than teaching educational subjects so students can be prepared to aquire a living?

Texas governs practically what our kids learned in school, like how Natves were happy to give their land to Europeans and Africans were happy worker immigrants.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Texas governs practically what our kids learned in school, like how Natves were happy to give their land to Europeans and Africans were happy worker immigrants.

I'd love to see the textbook.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Kind of reminds me of Biden and too many other liberal Democrats who consider Black people inferior and incapable of accomplishing anything without their help or direction.

That would be why lots of poor white people use government assistance?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Conservatives” tend to think all people are individuals first, and thus that, regardless of what popular stereotypes might indicate about any given identity group, each new person one encounters must be treated as one’s equal by default, until and unless he or she proves otherwise.

Man is not an island. We are a social species. Interdependence is how our species survives. Conservatives can hear Jesus ask who would give a stone to a kid who wants bread and ask , “Do the stones qualify for tax breaks because we should not have to pay our fair share?” The War of Independence was precisely about the people in power (white landowner males) not wanting to pay their bills. England protected them from the Native attacks they frankly deserved and the beneficiaries of this service Karen’d out and wanted it for free.

 

[Revoltingest]

Critical race theory reminds me of religion.
Everyone knows for certain what it is.
No one can agree on what it is.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I'd love to see the textbook.

You can start with Lies My Teacher Told Me.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I would like to thank this thread for helping me ignore the blatant racists.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Do you want to guess again?

CRT may not be anti white by definition, but its definitely racist in terms that essentially stereotypes all white people as being inherent racists themselves, and needing an education about black people and how to approach a black person.