Criminalizing Homelessness and Poverty

[sun rise]

Thinking of the homeless as if they were all the same is a terrible mistake.

For example, a friend of mine was homeless for a time when he was in college. He could not afford tuition, food and a place to live. Another friend gave him a place to live. He went on to a very successful career once he graduated. His story is not unique.

People who have looked into the problem know that many woman and children become homeless when they flee domestic violence.

When I see localities forbid feeding and helping the homeless it makes my blood boil. They are in fact mandating not acting like Christians, for those that are Christians.

Personally I'm thrilled to be part of this organization who is proving aid to those who are homeless with specific help for people trying to survive outdoors in cold weather.

 

[sun rise]

Guaranteed minimum income.

I agree. It's both a conservative (no big government bureaucracy involved) and a liberal (help the unfortunate) idea.

The targetted Finnish experiment did not help people get jobs but it reduced medical costs and helped in other ways. One key finding was: More to the point is the fact that getting a basic income didn’t induce people to work less.

That story also noted: It’s a rare idea that can get endorsed by figures as disparate as the tech billionaire Mark Zuckerberg, the leftist politician Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT), the libertarian economist Milton Friedman, and the civil rights activist Martin Luther King Jr.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

No. That is not what I'm seeing here. And BTW, I actually talk to homeless people about it. Perhaps... Let's see.. 5 or 6 times this year. All of them have local roots. That's why they stay here. It's because here is home... Even though they live outdoors.

So next time then, ask them specifically if they know anyone who relocated to wherever you are due to the policies or weather of where they were, thanks. I've talked to a few that I think like to spend summers here, but I cannot imagine them out there right now in five degree weather. A lot of people from the bottom states do not understand that, as they think fifty degrees is cold

 

[amorphous_constellation]

So it's all the republicans fault that democrat strongholds are enforcing more and more draconian laws?

Actually I'm curious on what is really going on with this issue, and I'd appreciate you showing me information you believe is relevant. What should I be reading on this to show me what is really going on here. I suspect it is societies fault in general, but how do the right / left policies differ. What are their separate approaches to the problem, which they surely have developed as they always do? If you reply don't give me your opinion, but cite something

 

[Lyndon]

expect smoke and mirrors!!

 

[dybmh]

So next time then, ask them specifically if they know anyone who relocated to wherever you are due to the policies or weather of where they were, thanks. I've talked to a few that I think like to spend summers here, but I cannot imagine them out there right now in five degree weather. A lot of people from the bottom states do not understand that, as they think fifty degrees is cold

Ok, can do.

 

[Stevicus]

 

[Shad]

Thinking of the homeless as if they were all the same is a terrible mistake.

For example, a friend of mine was homeless for a time when he was in college. He could not afford tuition, food and a place to live. Another friend gave him a place to live. He went on to a very successful career once he graduated. His story is not unique.

People who have looked into the problem know that many woman and children become homeless when they flee domestic violence.

When I see localities forbid feeding and helping the homeless it makes my blood boil. They are in fact mandating not acting like Christians, for those that are Christians.

Personally I'm thrilled to be part of this organization who is proving aid to those who are homeless with specific help for people trying to survive outdoors in cold weather.

Is this related to the FL issue to you?

 

[Thief]

But one does need experience if one is to propose solutions.
Otherwise one would be undone by unanticipated consequences.

I know many people in real estate....but none are tycoons.
Your proposal smacks of identity politics, ie, a group is
blamed & must be punished for the benefit of some other.

similar?.....to the uprising that overthrew Russia?

 

[sun rise]

Is this related to the FL issue to you?

It's related to any location no matter which party is in power where careful consideration of the reasons for homelessness are ignored and policies are based on something other than compassion are implemented.

 

[Revoltingest]

similar?.....to the uprising that overthrew Russia?

Yeah...they sure found a solution worse than the problem, eh.

 

[Thief]

Yeah...they sure found a solution worse than the problem, eh.

and the resolution ran it's course and capitalism is now in play
so I've heard

There is a speech by Lester Thurow in 2004
in which he describes the upward swing of what was some of the poorest people of Europe
the Irish

how did they do it?

they did away with the 40% corporate tax

now they are some of the richest people in Europe

 

[Revoltingest]

and the resolution ran it's course and capitalism is now in play
so I've heard

There is a speech by Lester Thurow in 2004
in which he describes the upward swing of what was some of the poorest people of Europe
the Irish

how did they do it?

they did away with the 40% corporate tax

now they are some of the richest people in Europe

I'm sure that @metis will counter that with some quote
from some lutefisk eater that raising taxes cures all ills.
Government should just take & redistribute it all, eh.

 

[Thief]

I'm sure that @metis will counter that with some quote
from some lutefisk eater that raising taxes cures all ills.

oh no....you didn't
but.....you did

you called him out

this thread will.....DIIIIIIIiiiiiieeeeeeeeee…….!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dybmh]

So next time then, ask them specifically if they know anyone who relocated to wherever you are due to the policies or weather of where they were, thanks. I've talked to a few that I think like to spend summers here, but I cannot imagine them out there right now in five degree weather. A lot of people from the bottom states do not understand that, as they think fifty degrees is cold

Ok, can do.

OK, my friend... i did it.

I was at the local public library in the Religious section ( imagine that... ) on Wednesday.

And a non-Jew approached me because... I was looking at their collection of prayer books and started asking me questions about Judaism. He's a super friendly guy; I enjoy talking about religion, especially Judaism. So we had a nice long chat.

Turns out, this person is a right-wing political conservative who also happens to be homeless. How do I know about his political inclinations? Well.... the reason this fellow asked for my opinion is because he is a Dennis Prager disciple. And Dennis Prager is a right-wing ( so called rational ) conservative radio talk show host who wrote his own commentary on the Torah. My new friend wanted my opinion on whether or not the Dennis Prager commentary was good for someone like him ( a non-Jew ) to learn about Torah. So we talked about religion and politics for about an hour.

Dennis Prager - Wikipedia

Anywhoooo...

At some point in the conversation, he discloses that he's homeless. And I gently probe him for details on his situation.

Here's what he told me:

He moved to this area a long time ago to start up a coffee roasting business. He does have family in the area, but not many in the city. He stays in the city because it has shelters and he belongs to gym that gives him access to showers, recreation, a locker, and friends.

It seemed like this city was "home" for him. But, it could be that he is staying here because it is a liberal homeless-friendly urban area with resources for him. I'm not sure.

But.

I can tell you this.

This fellow is a proud red-blooded right wing conservative. I offered to buy him a coffee so we could continue the fun religious discussion we were having. He refused, and he paid for my coffee instead. He would not take no for an answer. To me this means that he did not get kicked out a Red State, and then migrated to the Greener Pastures of one on the most liberal/progressive cities in America. This specific person doesn't want Liberal/Progressive resources at all. This fellow is not looking for a hand out. Not from what I could tell.

Edit to add: I am expecting to see this fellow at Synagogue tomorrow. He wanted to hear the Torah being read, so I invited him to join me at one of the Conservative Synagogues in the Downtown area. He was really excited about that. So I can get more details, I suppose, if you're interested...

 

[amorphous_constellation]

This specific person doesn't want Liberal/Progressive resources at all. This fellow is not looking for a hand out. Not from what I could tell.

Ok, no thanks I don't want more details because that seems like it would be weird to keep asking for in this context

I had watched this documentary called 'seattle is dying' that was made earlier in the year, and they seemed to make a big point on the great leniency the city allows the homeless. I had never been there, (or away from my flyover state very much at all for that matter) but you could tell by the footage that the something massive is going on there in terms of random camping. Now an interesting thing is, is that this documentary seems to be made from a conservative perspective, (I am 99% sure of that) and the advocacy for some form of removal seems to be underlined. One interesting scene focuses on town politics where the liberal leaders protest against the rallying conservative populace, who seem to ardent action be taken

So what I think is, you might not have to be looking for a handout to in some form, get it. My point is, that I suspect city policy isn't so relative that someone isn't going to be aware of what they're doing in a certain place. Tolerance could be extremely variable across the board, and I'm curious where the left / right divide is on this issue. Getting a feel from a few sources such trump, interviews with conservative psychologist drew pinsky, and the aforementioned documentary, I'm getting the idea that the right wing is not so hot about allowing the homeless a wide measure of freedom

 

[Lyndon]

No, I think the right wing is planning some kind of concentration camps for the homeless??

 

[Shad]

It's related to any location no matter which party is in power where careful consideration of the reasons for homelessness are ignored and policies are based on something other than compassion are implemented.

I was asking as there was a thread about the FL case of feeding the homeless by shutting the group down for not having portable toilets. Ergo a policy that ignores the issues but shuts down the aid for arbitrary reasons