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Crime

Is there a solution to crime, and will it end?

  • I believe crime will end

    Votes: 6 18.8%
  • I don't believe crime will end

    Votes: 21 65.6%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 2 6.3%
  • There is a solution to crime

    Votes: 15 46.9%
  • There is no solution to crime

    Votes: 4 12.5%

  • Total voters
    32

nPeace

Veteran Member
bill_sunglasses.png
Meet Bill - a hardworking family man, who goes to work everyday of each weekday, to provide for his family - a wife and two young children.

While working one evening, a desperate masked man, burst into the store where Bill was just preparing to leave for home.
masked_man.png
The robber demanded Bill hand over all the cash. During the robbery, Bill is shot several times, and the robber makes his escape.

ambulance.gif
Bill is rushed to the hospital "fighting for his life".
The fight is short-lives, as Bill succumbs to his injuries.
heartrate.gif

His life snatched away...
grieving.png
Bill leaves to mourn, a grieving widow, and two children.

FBI Releases 2019 Crime Statistics
Is there a solution to crime? What is the solution to crime?
Do you see a future where there is no crime, or do you see crime existing forever into the future?
ISQhw4t4IBVir8Kzcnf3L2KiExDZELTCIhgYAAXKAs1ZNHBukltX_fujceaMBV6R2dw_s7bYmsYk-7hw44Ux6Q7K2Xv924ZxvE2FqP4LNVj1IY6UW7LvzYaHxhJxOGwLB0PBZSGO1Yo2pFzm

Why, or why not?

Feel free to participate in the poll.

 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
View attachment 45681 Meet Bill - a hardworking family man, who goes to work everyday of each weekday, to provide for his family - a wife and two young children.

While working one evening, a desperate masked man, burst into the store where Bill was just preparing to leave for home.
View attachment 45682 The robber demanded Bill hand over all the cash. During the robbery, Bill is shot several times, and the robber makes his escape.

View attachment 45683 Bill is rushed to the hospital "fighting for his life".
The fight is short-lives, as Bill succumbs to his injuries. View attachment 45684
His life snatched away...
View attachment 45685 Bill leaves to mourn, a grieving widow, and two children.

FBI Releases 2019 Crime Statistics
Is there a solution to crime? What is the solution to crime?
Do you see a future where there is no crime, or do you see crime existing forever into the future?
ISQhw4t4IBVir8Kzcnf3L2KiExDZELTCIhgYAAXKAs1ZNHBukltX_fujceaMBV6R2dw_s7bYmsYk-7hw44Ux6Q7K2Xv924ZxvE2FqP4LNVj1IY6UW7LvzYaHxhJxOGwLB0PBZSGO1Yo2pFzm

Why, or why not?

Feel free to participate in the poll.
I answered i don't know because it may be that in the future crimes caused by lack of empathy etc may become treatable due to possible future treatments such as transplanting lab grown mirror neurons into the brains of those lacking them.

At any rate if crime is to be solved it will be through the practical application of science and not the empty utopian promises of religion.
 

Regiomontanus

Ματαιοδοξία ματαιοδοξιών! Όλα είναι ματαιοδοξία.
View attachment 45681 Meet Bill - a hardworking family man, who goes to work everyday of each weekday, to provide for his family - a wife and two young children.

While working one evening, a desperate masked man, burst into the store where Bill was just preparing to leave for home.
View attachment 45682 The robber demanded Bill hand over all the cash. During the robbery, Bill is shot several times, and the robber makes his escape.

View attachment 45683 Bill is rushed to the hospital "fighting for his life".
The fight is short-lives, as Bill succumbs to his injuries. View attachment 45684
His life snatched away...
View attachment 45685 Bill leaves to mourn, a grieving widow, and two children.

FBI Releases 2019 Crime Statistics
Is there a solution to crime? What is the solution to crime?
Do you see a future where there is no crime, or do you see crime existing forever into the future?
ISQhw4t4IBVir8Kzcnf3L2KiExDZELTCIhgYAAXKAs1ZNHBukltX_fujceaMBV6R2dw_s7bYmsYk-7hw44Ux6Q7K2Xv924ZxvE2FqP4LNVj1IY6UW7LvzYaHxhJxOGwLB0PBZSGO1Yo2pFzm

Why, or why not?

Feel free to participate in the poll.

Jesus is our only hope.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
View attachment 45681 Meet Bill - a hardworking family man, who goes to work everyday of each weekday, to provide for his family - a wife and two young children.

While working one evening, a desperate masked man, burst into the store where Bill was just preparing to leave for home.
View attachment 45682 The robber demanded Bill hand over all the cash. During the robbery, Bill is shot several times, and the robber makes his escape.

View attachment 45683 Bill is rushed to the hospital "fighting for his life".
The fight is short-lives, as Bill succumbs to his injuries. View attachment 45684
His life snatched away...
View attachment 45685 Bill leaves to mourn, a grieving widow, and two children.

FBI Releases 2019 Crime Statistics
Is there a solution to crime? What is the solution to crime?
Do you see a future where there is no crime, or do you see crime existing forever into the future?
ISQhw4t4IBVir8Kzcnf3L2KiExDZELTCIhgYAAXKAs1ZNHBukltX_fujceaMBV6R2dw_s7bYmsYk-7hw44Ux6Q7K2Xv924ZxvE2FqP4LNVj1IY6UW7LvzYaHxhJxOGwLB0PBZSGO1Yo2pFzm

Why, or why not?

Feel free to participate in the poll.


I think trying to stop the chain of events doesn't change anything. What would happen if there were no crimes, death, illnesses, etc? Outside of religion, our bodies are meant to die out anyway. So, as an ultimate goal, no. I don't believe there is a solution to crime. It doesn't mean we can't find solutions, just don't take for granted the solution will lead to everlasting life. False sense of security.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
View attachment 45681 Meet Bill - a hardworking family man, who goes to work everyday of each weekday, to provide for his family - a wife and two young children.

While working one evening, a desperate masked man, burst into the store where Bill was just preparing to leave for home.
The robber demanded Bill hand over all the cash. During the robbery, Bill is shot several times, and the robber makes his escape.


FBI Releases 2019 Crime Statistics
Is there a solution to crime? What is the solution to crime?
Do you see a future where there is no crime, or do you see crime existing forever into the future?

Why, or why not?

Feel free to participate in the poll.
Wow, a big topic.

The OP is about a crime of violence. It involves a firearm, in the First World a very American factor, so that's one thing the US could address (if it ever found the will).

It makes no attempt to understand the felon. Is he (I'll assume it's a male) poor, in a gang, on drugs, mentally disordered, a sociopath, all of the above? What kind of intervention, if any, might address such problems? A level playing field for education, opportunity, access to health services including mental health, inclusion instead of prejudice and exclusion, adequate welfare support, add up to a different approach that might be worth a try.

And what is a crime? Blasphemy? Anal intercourse between equal consenting adults? Lying with intent to gain financial advantage? or political advantage? Opposing or ignoring environmental laws for the benefit of self and shareholders? Sweet-talking granny to change her will? Double parking? Less-than-frank advertising? Sale of tobacco? Alcohol? Marijuana? Corn syrup? Biscuits with the calculated balance of sugar, fat and salt to encourage overeating? Making false declarations in your tax return? Not looking after your children?

A big topic indeed.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Equal opportunities, homes, education, sufficient income for needs, better access to needed resources, better access to healthcare, legalize prostitution, legalize all drugs, there are actually a great many things we can do to reduce crime. But will for-profit, private prisoning and a legal system that heavily disproportionately tilts in the favor of those with money go without a fight? It will not.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
To be an absolute pendant I would say the solution to crime is to abolish all laws. A crime is the name given to action that transgress a law. No law, no transgression, thus no crime.
This is actually a VERY good answer. Something is only a crime if the law says so.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
View attachment 45681 Meet Bill - a hardworking family man, who goes to work everyday of each weekday, to provide for his family - a wife and two young children.

While working one evening, a desperate masked man, burst into the store where Bill was just preparing to leave for home.
View attachment 45682 The robber demanded Bill hand over all the cash. During the robbery, Bill is shot several times, and the robber makes his escape.

View attachment 45683 Bill is rushed to the hospital "fighting for his life".
The fight is short-lives, as Bill succumbs to his injuries. View attachment 45684
His life snatched away...
View attachment 45685 Bill leaves to mourn, a grieving widow, and two children.

FBI Releases 2019 Crime Statistics
Is there a solution to crime? What is the solution to crime?
Do you see a future where there is no crime, or do you see crime existing forever into the future?
ISQhw4t4IBVir8Kzcnf3L2KiExDZELTCIhgYAAXKAs1ZNHBukltX_fujceaMBV6R2dw_s7bYmsYk-7hw44Ux6Q7K2Xv924ZxvE2FqP4LNVj1IY6UW7LvzYaHxhJxOGwLB0PBZSGO1Yo2pFzm

Why, or why not?

Feel free to participate in the poll.
I'm an optimist, I think crime can be handled and will disappear, at least in select portions of society.
But I'm also a realist and don't expect that to happen soon.
@epronovost's observation is a key part, and @Shadow Wolf's proposals are a good start.
I like to add that a good education directed at understanding the usefulness of laws is also crucial.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Is there a solution to crime? What is the solution to crime?
Do you see a future where there is no crime, or do you see crime existing forever into the future? Why, or why not?
I'm not sure there is 'a' solution to crime but there might be solutions that decrease the incidence of such. Since my views are not exactly right-wing, I tend to look for solutions that work rather than those that might make me feel better or give me the illusion of safety from the criminal behaviour of others. And in this respect, according to much evidence, prison doesn't work effectively at reducing crime, even if such is more popular with many (especially the right-wing) and often gives the illusion of doing so. After all, they mostly can't be committing crimes whilst inside, even if the likelihood of committing further crimes might increase after release from prison - and this seems to be the case for so many because prison is often such a disruptive time for so many, and also the means to better learn how to commit other crimes.

If one was to take the logical route to actually want to diminish the incidence of crime then surely one has to analyse why people commit crimes, and even why we have some things that are crimes in one country and not in another. The latter can be seen by two obvious examples, drug-taking and homosexual behaviour, where both might be legal in one country but illegal and severely punished in another. Likewise, if some are more prone to criminal actions due to some personal issues (including mental health or personality problems) or perhaps from the way that they were brought up, then surely these too should be addressed if one actually did want to solve issues rather than just going the regular route of 'crime ergo punishment'. The main problems with having a more enlightened approach, is firstly, that it is unlikely to be popular (the concept of punishment often being instilled into many from childhood), and secondly, that it might take a great deal of resources and time to make any impact. It also would mean a remarkable change in people's attitudes to crime in general and some in particular. Many just would not want to see resources going to criminals or those most likely to commit such, and would rather it went to any possible victims, even if this could be shown to be somewhat short-sighted. And I suspect that religious beliefs often will have the larger influence on what many are prepared to believe and/or accept, and why I so dislike what many of these beliefs involve with regards such issues.

Without some of this I don't see crime or how we treat such changing much in the future, although perhaps technology might be brought more to bear on the subject - such as more monitoring - even if this might not be what most would like to see, and especially if it spread to the general population - which is very much the case now as it happens.

Of course one could do what many nations seem to do, and which I consider pure ignorance, that of placing more in prison and executing the worst offenders. :oops:

Take your pick.
 

Regiomontanus

Ματαιοδοξία ματαιοδοξιών! Όλα είναι ματαιοδοξία.
Well, then he'd best get crackin'.

Funny. Of course that is not what I meant.

Imagine if everyone loved their neighbor? Went the extra mile? Actually cared for the poor and hungry? Were actually good stewards of Creation? If we all followed the teachings of the Christ Jesus, the planet would be transformed, have things "on earth as it is in heaven".

Simple, but not easy of course.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
If you want to deal with crime, you have to first figure out why there is crime at all. Among the reasons I can see:

1. Severe inequalities in society: people who are desperate to eat or feed their families will commit crimes to be able to do so.

2. Mental illness: some people don't have 'normal' empathy or socialization. Often, there is little motivation for people to treat the underlying illness. Drug addiction can be put in this category.

3. Bad laws. Laws that are too restrictive or unequally applied lead people to break them. So, for example, having laws against homosexuality won't eliminate homosexuality. Instead, people will break the unjust law.

I'm sure there are many, many more reasons for crime, but these can get us started.

So, in your scenario, what is motivating the robber in the first place? Does he need money? if so, what for? Food? Drugs? Is he robbing for some sort of social status in an organization? if so, what motivates that organization?

My own views:

I don't think we can eliminate crime. But I do think we can take steps to minimize it. We can have health services that treat drug addiction and other mental health issues. We can organize our society so that poverty is minimized and people aren't desperate to get the basics of life. We can try to make laws that are more fair and encourage human well being instead of being punitive on matters that don't make a real difference. We can have more rehabilitation services.

Of course, reducing crime means we have to actually study the issue and put resources into solving it as opposed to ignoring the real problems of society. And all too many people prefer to not be bothered by someone else's problems until they come to the door in the form of a robber.
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
Do you see a future where there is no crime, or do you see crime existing forever into the future?
I don't think you can completely remove it, simply because there are those that just doesn't care. Whether that is due to a mental issue or because they just had enough with something. But ignoring those, I do think that eventually crime will go away.

First of all, crimes which are done due to stealing and robbing etc. Could be solved by things not having any worthwhile value to speak of, in the sense that they are no longer worth stealing compared to simply buying one or making one. Obviously this requires that we can manufacture things as easy as that of Star trek :)


So some sort of atomic replicators :D

In regards to murders and such, one could imagine a system where devices were installed into all of us, which could keep track of other people around us. So if person A is about to get murdered by Person B, data from person A is stored somewhere that they were in contact with Person B at the time of murder, so the police would be able to see this afterwards, making it almost impossible to get away.

Such system could probably also be made so it automatically called the police during assaults etc. giving them your exact location and so forth.

There could be personal surveillance devices, food scanners against poisons etc.

All done with nano technology so you couldn't easily remove them :)

Its obviously far out in the future and have some privacy issues, but if we are just talking about getting rid of crimes, then I don't think it is impossible.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
There will always be crime but there are steps that can be taken to ameliorate that problem. A large part is that, as the old saying goes, "An ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure".

Also, there's better methods to use, such as with more neighborhood policing, having more police versus issuing longer sentences, better rehabilitation methods, etc.

And, as a final note, having loaded guns in one's house is not a good idea based on numerous studies.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
I answered i don't know because it may be that in the future crimes caused by lack of empathy etc may become treatable due to possible future treatments such as transplanting lab grown mirror neurons into the brains of those lacking them.

At any rate if crime is to be solved it will be through the practical application of science and not the empty utopian promises of religion.
Okay, so you believe man's brain needs rewiring.
So you believe there is a need to change the natural process of evolution? Would that prevent man evolving to a more dangerous criminal?

Why has science failed to do what religion has done to change man's thinking, without interfering with his neurons directly?
Is that not proof that the "empty utopian promises of religion" are only empty to those who, for whatever reason, reject them. Whereas, the promises are a sure reality, since the educational program works - producing the expected results?

Jesus is our only hope.
Thank you.
Would you like to share why you believe we can be sure of that?

I think trying to stop the chain of events doesn't change anything. What would happen if there were no crimes, death, illnesses, etc? Outside of religion, our bodies are meant to die out anyway. So, as an ultimate goal, no. I don't believe there is a solution to crime. It doesn't mean we can't find solutions, just don't take for granted the solution will lead to everlasting life. False sense of security.
So you believe, that removing crime doesn't do much to change the overall quality of life. It only removes one of many problems. That is quite true.
Yet, isn't it true that man is making efforts to tackle these problems progressively - crime, disease, poverty, and yes, scientist are even working at tackling death... believe it or not.
You are saying you don't think they can. I agree with you.

When you say, "Outside of religion, our bodies are meant to die out anyway", what do you mean?

To be an absolute pendant I would say the solution to crime is to abolish all laws. A crime is the name given to action that transgress a law. No law, no transgression, thus no crime.
Abolish all laws?
So, someone can walk in a grocery store; take what they want, and walk out? Or there would be no law against rape, or abuse?

Wow, a big topic.

The OP is about a crime of violence. It involves a firearm, in the First World a very American factor, so that's one thing the US could address (if it ever found the will).

It makes no attempt to understand the felon. Is he (I'll assume it's a male) poor, in a gang, on drugs, mentally disordered, a sociopath, all of the above? What kind of intervention, if any, might address such problems? A level playing field for education, opportunity, access to health services including mental health, inclusion instead of prejudice and exclusion, adequate welfare support, add up to a different approach that might be worth a try.

And what is a crime? Blasphemy? Anal intercourse between equal consenting adults? Lying with intent to gain financial advantage? or political advantage? Opposing or ignoring environmental laws for the benefit of self and shareholders? Sweet-talking granny to change her will? Double parking? Less-than-frank advertising? Sale of tobacco? Alcohol? Marijuana? Corn syrup? Biscuits with the calculated balance of sugar, fat and salt to encourage overeating? Making false declarations in your tax return? Not looking after your children?

A big topic indeed.
Okay. I take it you are saying you believe crime can be stamped out, and there are solutions.

A level playing field for education, opportunity, access to health services including mental health, inclusion instead of prejudice and exclusion, adequate welfare support, add up to a different approach that might be worth a try.
Here sounds like a good start. Let's start with education. What did you have in mind? Can you give some examples?

@Shadow Wolf perhaps you can elaborate on the education you are considering.
You also seem to think drugs is a key prerequisite to crime. Am I reading you correctly?

People will always seek to push any boundaries they can: man made or natural.
Seems that way, doesn't it. Why do you think this is the case? Do you think that's man's unchangeable nature?

I'm an optimist, I think crime can be handled and will disappear, at least in select portions of society.
But I'm also a realist and don't expect that to happen soon.
@epronovost's observation is a key part, and @Shadow Wolf's proposals are a good start.
I like to add that a good education directed at understanding the usefulness of laws is also crucial.
I'm glad you elaborated a bit on the education aspect.
So do you think men commit crimes because they are uneducated about the purpose of laws, or they don't understand why they are given?

Well, then he'd best get crackin'.
It doesn't look like he is, does it.
Back in the first century, someone associated with the followers of Christ wrote this... He delivered us from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of his love, (Apostle Paul - Colossians 1:13)
If I understand that correctly, it says Jesus has "gotten cracking". Coming forward almost 2000 years, evidence has shown that verse to be true. The Kingdom of the Son of His Love

I'm not sure there is 'a' solution to crime but there might be solutions that decrease the incidence of such. Since my views are not exactly right-wing, I tend to look for solutions that work rather than those that might make me feel better or give me the illusion of safety from the criminal behaviour of others. And in this respect, according to much evidence, prison doesn't work effectively at reducing crime, even if such is more popular with many (especially the right-wing) and often gives the illusion of doing so. After all, they mostly can't be committing crimes whilst inside, even if the likelihood of committing further crimes might increase after release from prison - and this seems to be the case for so many because prison is often such a disruptive time for so many, and also the means to better learn how to commit other crimes.

If one was to take the logical route to actually want to diminish the incidence of crime then surely one has to analyse why people commit crimes, and even why we have some things that are crimes in one country and not in another. The latter can be seen by two obvious examples, drug-taking and homosexual behaviour, where both might be legal in one country but illegal and severely punished in another. Likewise, if some are more prone to criminal actions due to some personal issues (including mental health or personality problems) or perhaps from the way that they were brought up, then surely these too should be addressed if one actually did want to solve issues rather than just going the regular route of 'crime ergo punishment'. The main problems with having a more enlightened approach, is firstly, that it is unlikely to be popular (the concept of punishment often being instilled into many from childhood), and secondly, that it might take a great deal of resources and time to make any impact. It also would mean a remarkable change in people's attitudes to crime in general and some in particular. Many just would not want to see resources going to criminals or those most likely to commit such, and would rather it went to any possible victims, even if this could be shown to be somewhat short-sighted. And I suspect that religious beliefs often will have the larger influence on what many are prepared to believe and/or accept, and why I so dislike what many of these beliefs involve with regards such issues.

Without some of this I don't see crime or how we treat such changing much in the future, although perhaps technology might be brought more to bear on the subject - such as more monitoring - even if this might not be what most would like to see, and especially if it spread to the general population - which is very much the case now as it happens.

Of course one could do what many nations seem to do, and which I consider pure ignorance, that of placing more in prison and executing the worst offenders. :oops:

Take your pick.
I tend to like your approach, of looking at the root causes.
Suppose we zero in on one you mentioned - mental illness. This is a major one. How would one go about tackling the root cause of mental illness? Does anyone know the cause?
Bearing in mind though, that most people who commit robberies are not necessarily mentally ill.
FT_20.11.12_CrimeInTheUS_1.png


Crime cannot be solved.
But it can be managed to some extent.
Thanks for sharing. Would you like to share any thoughts on how "it can be managed to some extent"?

Of course crime will never end. There is no such thing as a utopia and never will be.
In your opinion. You don't think there is... of course.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
If you want to deal with crime, you have to first figure out why there is crime at all. Among the reasons I can see:

1. Severe inequalities in society: people who are desperate to eat or feed their families will commit crimes to be able to do so.

2. Mental illness: some people don't have 'normal' empathy or socialization. Often, there is little motivation for people to treat the underlying illness. Drug addiction can be put in this category.

3. Bad laws. Laws that are too restrictive or unequally applied lead people to break them. So, for example, having laws against homosexuality won't eliminate homosexuality. Instead, people will break the unjust law.

I'm sure there are many, many more reasons for crime, but these can get us started.

So, in your scenario, what is motivating the robber in the first place? Does he need money? if so, what for? Food? Drugs? Is he robbing for some sort of social status in an organization? if so, what motivates that organization?

My own views:

I don't think we can eliminate crime. But I do think we can take steps to minimize it. We can have health services that treat drug addiction and other mental health issues. We can organize our society so that poverty is minimized and people aren't desperate to get the basics of life. We can try to make laws that are more fair and encourage human well being instead of being punitive on matters that don't make a real difference. We can have more rehabilitation services.

Of course, reducing crime means we have to actually study the issue and put resources into solving it as opposed to ignoring the real problems of society. And all too many people prefer to not be bothered by someone else's problems until they come to the door in the form of a robber.
Sounds lie quite a huge task to me... and impossible.

I don't think you can completely remove it, simply because there are those that just doesn't care. Whether that is due to a mental issue or because they just had enough with something. But ignoring those, I do think that eventually crime will go away.

First of all, crimes which are done due to stealing and robbing etc. Could be solved by things not having any worthwhile value to speak of, in the sense that they are no longer worth stealing compared to simply buying one or making one. Obviously this requires that we can manufacture things as easy as that of Star trek :)


So some sort of atomic replicators :D

In regards to murders and such, one could imagine a system where devices were installed into all of us, which could keep track of other people around us. So if person A is about to get murdered by Person B, data from person A is stored somewhere that they were in contact with Person B at the time of murder, so the police would be able to see this afterwards, making it almost impossible to get away.

Such system could probably also be made so it automatically called the police during assaults etc. giving them your exact location and so forth.

There could be personal surveillance devices, food scanners against poisons etc.

All done with nano technology so you couldn't easily remove them :)

Its obviously far out in the future and have some privacy issues, but if we are just talking about getting rid of crimes, then I don't think it is impossible.
Interesting.
So, it would seem money and the need for it, is one contributor to crime. Is that partly what you are saying?

The implants don't amount to a solution though, since the criminal acts are still being carried out.
We can be sure too that the crooks will find a way to beat that system, and be one step ahead of law enforcement.
So far, all the systems put in place to beat crime and terrorism, has been equally challenged by criminals.

Hackers are a dime a dozen. Computer chips are toast to them. Just look at cyber crime for example.
 
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