Creationists arguing lack of extraterrestrial life supports anti-evolution position.

[DeistPrimate]

I thought I'd start a new thread to address one of the off topic lines Wilsoncole perpetuates on the other thread "What does the fossil record say? So here are the pertinent posts from there -

I've never understood why so many creationists believe lack of evidence for extraterrestrial life supports any part of their position. If we find life in the universe to be very very rare this only supports a more atheist position there is no 'creator' seeding the universe with life. The existence of useless to life planets certainly doesn't support the existence of an intelligent grand designer.
I would think if we find the universe teeming with life, especially intelligent life, this would more suggest the existence of a Life Creator.
Sorry for continuing to allow Wilsoncole to run off topic (on the original What does the fossil record say? thread), but he seems incapable of sticking to it.
Our Sun is a mediocre star among hundreds of billions in a mediocre galaxy among hundreds of billions, just by sheer natural process it HAD to happen somewhere.

You want to play only if you own the ball - right?
I could respond to this, but if I do, would you not be contributing to what you're complaining about?
Then don't keep drinking the beer if you don't like the taste!

You just keep bringing a football to a basketball game, and you don't even know how to play either football or basketball.
I think a thread about the common misunderstanding creationists have regarding what the rarity of life in the universe would mean is in order.

On second thought, I think I will:
Space Exploration Disproves Evolution by Josh Greenberger

You'd have to give me a short explanation in your own words (just like back in my school days - show your work) how the contents of this article in any way supports your contention. I'm just not seeing it.

 

[outhouse]

if you do the math, there is no need for life to be seeded. we know life evolved here and appeared not long after the earth was stable enough to support life.

it is possible a chunk of rock carried bacteria from mars but that is not a creator at all.

You need to realize the whole universe is made up of what our earth and human bodies are made up from. These elements that bring life are universal. There is no need for creating by ET.

the odds of another planet with a simular species of either man or animal of one of our many species would not be that far fetched.

if you look at the millions of different animals that came from the materials of the universe on our earth, it would be idiotic to think we need a creator. ET or a myth

 

[Autodidact]

Alright, I took a look at the article:

The phrase most often used by evolutionists is probably "billions and billions of years:"

What could he possibly mean by "evolutionist" in this question? I think he means, "people who accept science."

"life evolved over billions and billions of years," "the solar system developed over billions and billions of years," "the universe has been expanding for billions and billions of years." It almost seems as if these accounts of the evolution of our universe are intended to keep people from questioning unverifiable statements.

It's almost as though he has no idea that the Theory of Evolution (ToE) is a specific theory in a specific scientific field, Biology. Alternatively, he's a liar. It doesn't matter which, we now know he is not a credible source.

It's disinformation like this that keeps so many people confused.

I think they think evolution means, "God did not create the universe; science tells us how." Or something. They think this because they use the term with each other this way. It makes it tedious to talk to them, because you have to review the most basic terminology to even start. It seems like their entire approach to thinking about anything is so confused that it's hard to have a reasonable conversation with them.

That is, how do you go about disproving what allegedly happened so long ago?

I don't know, but here's a suggestion: how about trying science? It seems to work pretty well. Oh wait, that actually shows that ToE is correct. I guess there is no way then.

Then he tells about a lot of interesting findings of life persisting in quite surprising places. How is this supposed to address ToE? Well, I guess when you don't know what something is, you also have no idea what might support or disprove it.

Then he goes to Mars. O.K., there are probably a few trillion trillion planets in the universe. We went to one and haven't found life yet. Therefore there is no life on the remaining trillion trillion? "Of the planets we've explored to date." How many have we explored to date, one?

So since there is no life on Mars, ToE is incorrect. That's his argument. No, I am not making this up.

There is a species of South American bee which has become immune to DDT.

This is supposed to be an argument that ToE is NOT correct? I'm thinking he has no idea what ToE says. Honestly.

So we have your basic ignorant creationist who thinks he can refute a theory without understanding what it is. He's right. The only possible way to refute ToE is to not understand it. Once you understand it, you realize it's correct.

I'm done. Do I have to read any more of this tripe?

 

[painted wolf]

Really?

How does the idea of an infinite empty universe speak to the glory of God?

With all that power God could only muster life on one of billions of worlds... the rest are what? The excesses of an over active deity?
The desperate act of deity trying to keep us from finding the edge of the fishbowl?

I don't know why people limit God so much. Is the ego of the believer so delicate that the idea of God making life elsewhere is so traumatic.

What happens if life is found?

wa:do

 

[Autodidact]

Really?

How does the idea of an infinite empty universe speak to the glory of God?

With all that power God could only muster life on one of billions of worlds... the rest are what? The excesses of an over active deity?
The desperate act of deity trying to keep us from finding the edge of the fishbowl?

I don't know why people limit God so much. Is the ego of the believer so delicate that the idea of God making life elsewhere is so traumatic.

What happens if life is found?

wa:do

They can work that into their belief system. It's not falsifiable. If there is life, God exists. If not, that also shows that God exists.

 

[Jacksnyte]

They can work that into their belief system. It's not falsifiable. If there is life, God exists. If not, that also shows that God exists.

So, what you are saying here is that if anything happens anywhere, or if nothing happens, this proves the existence of god?

 

[McBell]

So, what you are saying here is that if anything happens anywhere, or if nothing happens, this proves the existence of god?

For extremists and fanatics, yes.
But then, they tend to use any and every thing as proof god exists.

 

[micrurus]

No, if there is no extraterestrial life, it would be a claim against abiogenesis. evolution is an explanation of the diversity of life GIVEN that life already exists.

 

[Gunfingers]

Why is it that we're assuming the universe is empty? To date we've only explored two planets thoroughly enough to determine if they contain any manner of life: Earth and Mars. Earth most certainly DOES contain life, and evidence has been found that Mars may have at some time in the past. We have to-date never explored a planet outside our solar system with enough precision to determine if it harbors life.

 

[Sleekstar]

I think the whole idea is stupid from the very beginning. Even though it's true, to state that we have no evidence of alien life is like saying there's no evidence in my living room of the existence of Russia. The universe is way too vast, and as yet way too unknown, to make any claims based on a lack of evidence of what's in it.

 

[Autodidact]

So, what you are saying here is that if anything happens anywhere, or if nothing happens, this proves the existence of god?

Yes, that is the theist position.

 

[painted wolf]

Heads I win, tails you loose.

wa:do

 

[Autodidact]

Heads I win, tails you loose.

wa:do

That's exactly what I call this form of argumentation.

"X is the case, therefore, God exists."
"Actually, X is not the case. Here's the supporting research."
"Well, God exists anyway."

 

[LuisDantas]

Interesting how that amounts to saying that the existence of God is actually irrelevant and indetectable. Yet the same people often feel horror at the idea that some people actually doubt his existence.

Does it make any sense?

 

[ellenjanuary]

I thought I'd start a new thread to address one of the off topic lines Wilsoncole perpetuates on the other thread "What does the fossil record say? So here are the pertinent posts from there -


You'd have to give me a short explanation in your own words (just like back in my school days - show your work) how the contents of this article in any way supports your contention. I'm just not seeing it.

I heard a rumor that back in the day, if two young braves had a dispute of honor, they would tie a cord around one hand, place a knife in the other; and settle the dispute. Unfortunately, with civilization comes civilized behavior. It is civilized behavior on your part that allows this question of honor to remained unsettled.

Creationists... simply have no honor. This is how far I got:

Are we to believe that this god called evolution, who has given earth such a sophisticated organ as the human brain as far back as two million years ago, has to this date not managed to put forth on Mars so much as a dumb ***?

From wilsoncole's so-called source. And what is the title of that source? Not your civilized interpretation, but rather - space exploration disproves evolution. One, two, three words a lie. That's it, that's as far as the "writer" got before resorting to a blatant lie. Space has not been explored. Period. I do not think it is possible just as a function of the restlessness of being to show how little we know of space as a function of me moving, compared to the potential of movement contained on the entire earth.

It is not enough, that to said "writer," evolution is just some type of scam (to pull the wool over god's eyes - yeah right), but that we evolutionists are idolaters. If you missed it, not only are idolaters only worthy of death by Biblical reckoning; by classifying evolution as god is to classify us as being victimized by theistic delusion.

Cord, I wonder; knife.

Just from facts and figures I have forgotten; a modicum of research could produce an avalanche of data to bury every piece of disinformation I have just read. But it does not deserve the honor. The same timescales this "writer" ridicules; in turn ridicule what I have quoted of his work. Mars has (well, according to theory; I'd go check, but my teleporter is malfing) no tectonic activity, and no sizable moon. For all the data he seems so certain of posting (considering its idolatrous origin) he manages to miss the first principles - conservation law. Nature, too, conserves. Meaning that at its most basic, the will of life to live does not; when such will is non-conservative.

And while we, as man; is far more than giraffe when it comes to sticking our fingers into extraterrestrial regolith, what we actually know about life on Mars - is jack. If you're feeling civilized, you can google about with such queries as "what are the odds of the pathfinder finding life on earth." What are the odds that today's definition of life will have meaning tomorrow?

So, to answer the question; of course this "article" supports the contention of Creationism. The problem with the truth is that all suppositions leading to truth must be true. With support for Creationism - itself a lie - any old lie will do.

 

[DeistPrimate]

My wife was raised a 7th Day Adventist and was taught by her church God created myriads of worlds throughout the universe with intelligent life. So I assume a 7th Day Adventist pastor of the future might be disappointed to find millions of sterile worlds strewn across the galaxy.

My educated guess would be that intelligent life is very very rare, multicellular life very rare, unicellular life rare. But even if there's only one planet with intelligent life per galaxy (we know already there's at least one such galaxy) that's still hundreds of billions of planets with intelligent life; God, gods or not.

 

[ellenjanuary]

It is my educated guess that when we have a sufficiently advanced technology to explore space; we are not going to find a rock that doesn't have life. That's what the evidence actually says. All this so-called empty space, yet we find amino acids on meteors? What are the odds? And what's a monkey doing living in the desert, anyway?

As for intelligent life, is there such a thing? One consideration follows another. When we sent ships into space, how many microbes went along for the ride? When we get to Mars, will we find life evolved from hitchhikers from Mariner? There is nothing new under the sun ...other than scale.

 

[ellenjanuary]

Here's a bit from Neil deGrasse Tyson concerning the commonality of elements between us and universe - at 2 minutes in:
[youtube]Re66MWWl8q8[/youtube]
YouTube - Does Neil Tyson think we are alone in the universe?

 

[outhouse]

Ive said this a hundred times lol i need to copy and paste this

You cant keep life down!


this planet is covered in life, all kinds of life. I think its almost impossible to find a place without life !

this means the whole universe with other planets in the same green zone are the same way with different form's based off the majoity of elements in there planet and atmosphere.


You cant keep life down

 

[Man of Faith]

Why is it that we're assuming the universe is empty? To date we've only explored two planets thoroughly enough to determine if they contain any manner of life: Earth and Mars. Earth most certainly DOES contain life, and evidence has been found that Mars may have at some time in the past. We have to-date never explored a planet outside our solar system with enough precision to determine if it harbors life.

We don't have to explore planets to determine if there is other life in the universe, companies are listening for life out there and they can't find any. If evolution was true, the universe should be teaming with life and it is not.