Creationist - what is your understanding of TOE?

[outhouse]

Walking apes appear today, those pictures of a few bones dont prove evolution.

there are no walking apes today with bone structures like that. Thats one being's fossils, theres hundred and many transitional species that are very man like. you just dont know about them.


theres a clear undisputable path for human evolution.

its a puzzle and we dont have all the pieces but the picture is clear

there is no debate at all on this only those in denial

 

[outhouse]

Don't feed the troll.

what was I thinking lol

 

[Bereanz]

there are no walking apes today with bone structures like that. Thats one being's fossils, theres hundred and many transitional species that are very man like. you just dont know about them.


theres a clear undisputable path for human evolution.

its a puzzle and we dont have all the pieces but the picture is clear

there is no debate at all on this only those in denial

It' s certainly puzzling which is why it's not at all clear. Now that I've been accused of being a troll, I shall leave you to it,

 

[Alceste]

It' s certainly puzzling which is why it's not at all clear. Now that I've been accused of being a troll, I shall leave you to it,

Thank you.

 

[dallas1125]

A poster once post this:


I see this as a blatant misunderstanding of the theory of evolution, and taught it would be good for creationist to let us know what their understanding of the theory of evolution. I think this may be value added, since others ("evolutionists") may be able to point out any misconceptions. So, creationists, what is your understanding of the theory of evolution (and of evolution itself)?

I have a very limited knowledge on the theory. I remember my science classes and the lectures taught the theory but thats it. So yes, I do believe in evolution but I wouldnt be able to debate it. My understanding is that over time animals adapt to their environment so they can continue to live. At first it started with a simple cingle cell organism.

 

[Gloone]

Your not paying attention.
Evolution is as much a theory as creationism is. It is all history which is being constantly rewritten. In a good number of years, someone will come along and say, "Look at these foolish people thinking that we evolved from nothing. How could the not have known we were displaced here from other planets?"
To say it will never happen is like someone from the 40's saying we will never land on the moon.
You demand theists have an open mind about evolution. Where is yours?

That statement actually holds some merit, and I would say trying to recreate how an extinct species evolved is about as accurate as saying how they became extinct.

Digging up bones and telling people a Dinosaur once roamed the earth just doesn’t impress a lot of people. So Scientist end up with different stories and possible theories for different things that end up conflicting with one another and cannot be proven. Why it is a theory is beyond me when a lot of it can be considered a bunch of hypothetical mumbo jumbo. These are some of the theories and stories I have heard. Dinosaurs were stupid animals and didn’t know how to survive yet somehow they managed to evolve into the creatures they were. An asteroid hit the earth and caused a massive dust cloud and killed everything off. Maybe a diseased spread across the planet and killed everything. Maybe everything froze up during the Ice Age and died so evolution had to start all over again. The truth is no one knows and probably never well. If someone found an answer as to why, no one would care at this point because scientists have been pulling stuff out of their hats for a really long time now. Just because someone says “well it could have happen.” Doesn’t mean it did.

So the simple solution to all this would be for people to teach the facts and not a bunch made up stuff.

Evolution is just the study of the way things occur naturally in real world environments, not prehistoric ones, and not artificial ones.

 

[LuisDantas]

Surely prehistory is a real world environment?

 

[TJ73]

That statement actually holds some merit, and I would say trying to recreate how an extinct species evolved is about as accurate as saying how they became extinct.

Digging up bones and telling people a Dinosaur once roamed the earth just doesn’t impress a lot of people. So Scientist end up with different stories and possible theories for different things that end up conflicting with one another and cannot be proven. Why it is a theory is beyond me when a lot of it can be considered a bunch of hypothetical mumbo jumbo. These are some of the theories and stories I have heard. Dinosaurs were stupid animals and didn’t know how to survive yet somehow they managed to evolve into the creatures they were. An asteroid hit the earth and caused a massive dust cloud and killed everything off. Maybe a diseased spread across the planet and killed everything. Maybe everything froze up during the Ice Age and died so evolution had to start all over again. The truth is no one knows and probably never well. If someone found an answer as to why, no one would care at this point because scientists have been pulling stuff out of their hats for a really long time now. Just because someone says “well it could have happen.” Doesn’t mean it did.

So the simple solution to all this would be for people to teach the facts and not a bunch made up stuff.

Evolution is just the study of the way things occur naturally in real world environments, not prehistoric ones, and not artificial ones.

In science theory has a preponderance of evidence and is widely accept amongst the scientific community.
With dinosaurs the evidence of their existence and habitat is easy enough to understand even for a layperson. The geological record of the earths conditions is firmly encased in rock and again visible to a lay person and with examination of samples easy to decipher. There was a mass extinction, in fact more than one and that IS a fact.
Evolution never had to start all over, it never stopped.
But that does not take God out of it for me and doesn't have to for you either. Our scriptural understanding of creation was necessarily written to stop investigating, but perhaps to encourage greater investigating. Perhaps even as clues to assist in investigating.

 

[Thief]

have you finished high school?

you cant even recognize human skulls????

That's an unfair statement.

I don't remember the guy's name....
but he got caught misrepresenting a skull he found.
There was some debate of his intention....
but his credibility was forever crashed.

Some scientist he was!

 

[Thief]

there are no walking apes today with bone structures like that. Thats one being's fossils, theres hundred and many transitional species that are very man like. you just dont know about them.


theres a clear undisputable path for human evolution.

its a puzzle and we dont have all the pieces but the picture is clear

there is no debate at all on this only those in denial

Still denying Chapter Two of Genesis?

Does it occur to the participants here that 'something' happened...
to change the course of Man?

That believers say 'yeah'....with out proof ...doesn't mean they are wrong.

And the proof would be that rib...in the carcass of Eve.
Try finding that!

Or perhaps...someday...someone in the field of genetics
will find a way to determine the split of Man from the rest of the the animal world.
After all...Eve would be Adam's twin sister.
Maybe there's some hidden twist in our 'strands' that will show it?

Proof is something you can die waiting for.
That's why humans have faith.

 

[David M]

The post is self explainitory given that it was in response to an athiest chastizing a Christian for illegedly believing in myths. The post is a thorough explaination, more thorough than any other post in this thread (in my opinion) giving reason as to why one can conclude that the theory of evolution is not a new modern scientific idea (that we all need to "catch up with") but on the contrary is in an actual fact steeped in ancient pagan belief.

Well in that case your "thorough explanation" is complete garbage because except at the most superficial level of "species change over time and become other species" the ancient views on evolution provide no basis for the modern theory of evolution.

There is no "pagan belief" in the theory of evolution, what there actually is when you look at it is the application of the scientific method to observable evidence. This is a diametric opposite to the lies in what you posted.

My understanding of what is commonly referred to as the theory of evolution is this.

It's part varifiable scientific fact, that part, In my opinion is commonly referred to as natural selection, but only some of which is refferde to as natural selcetion is widely accepted and agreed to "scientifically varifiable", and also in my opinion the word is used extremely subjectively and means differnt things to many different people.

The other part is not varifibale sceintic fact at all, and that is what I call "the theory of Evolution", which in an of it self isn't a problematic idea, until people start attempting to suggest it has been scientifically proven to be fact. Which of course is rediculous, not to mention a lie.

The proponents of this theory would do them selves and the general public a huge service if they separated the scienticfic fact from the myth, because as of right now the very words "The theory of Evolution" is a PR night mare and a disinformationalist dream.

So you don't understand the Theory that you criticise (not that this was not pretty clear before but thanks for confirming it).

 

[Rakhel]

That statement actually holds some merit, and I would say trying to recreate how an extinct species evolved is about as accurate as saying how they became extinct.

Digging up bones and telling people a Dinosaur once roamed the earth just doesn’t impress a lot of people. So Scientist end up with different stories and possible theories for different things that end up conflicting with one another and cannot be proven. Why it is a theory is beyond me when a lot of it can be considered a bunch of hypothetical mumbo jumbo. These are some of the theories and stories I have heard. Dinosaurs were stupid animals and didn’t know how to survive yet somehow they managed to evolve into the creatures they were. An asteroid hit the earth and caused a massive dust cloud and killed everything off. Maybe a diseased spread across the planet and killed everything. Maybe everything froze up during the Ice Age and died so evolution had to start all over again. The truth is no one knows and probably never well. If someone found an answer as to why, no one would care at this point because scientists have been pulling stuff out of their hats for a really long time now. Just because someone says “well it could have happen.” Doesn’t mean it did.

So the simple solution to all this would be for people to teach the facts and not a bunch made up stuff.

Evolution is just the study of the way things occur naturally in real world environments, not prehistoric ones, and not artificial ones.

This is what I was trying to say.
I remember studying about the Alicesaraus when I was in grade school. My daughter comes home with the same dinosaur and it has a different name and a different story. The baby T-rex is no long a T-rex by something else entirely.
Stuff my parents were taught is "out-dated" and wrong because my generation got it right only to have my daughter's generation come along and say 'Nope. you were wrong. It's this."
It's tiring to have the younger generation come up and tell you you are stupid because you believe X, when Y is the correct belief. It's proven as such.
The ToE is great. It is an important study and very worth while, if it helps you to understand what you chose to believe. Just so long as you know someone will come along and tell you you're wrong.

Oh, and BTW, get back to me when they finally get it right.

 

[painted wolf]

Actually evolution is the change in gene frequencies in a population over time.
We can measure this and study it.

The interpretation of fossils is fun and the science of paleontology has come a long way... but being wrong about a particular skeleton being one species or another really has no impact on the theory of evolution. Gene frequencies in population will still change over time.

wa:do

 

[Rakhel]

I think you missed the point, but oh well.

 

[Thief]

Actually evolution is the change in gene frequencies in a population over time.
We can measure this and study it.

The interpretation of fossils is fun and the science of paleontology has come a long way... but being wrong about a particular skeleton being one species or another really has no impact on the theory of evolution. Gene frequencies in population will still change over time.

wa:do

Almost....
A misconception presented by just one person could have long standing influence.

Was it not Aristotle who taught spontaneous generation?

And that teaching stood firm until someone did a proper experiment...
with fly maggots of all things...
to show otherwise.

I've seen one report that now disputes the skeleton of "Lucy".

I wish it were easy.
One discovery...one law unchanging.

But each time someone pronounces...'eureka!...I found it'....
Someone else comes along....'you jerk!.....no you didn't!'

 

[tumbleweed41]

Actually evolution is the change in gene frequencies in a population over time.
We can measure this and study it.

The interpretation of fossils is fun and the science of paleontology has come a long way... but being wrong about a particular skeleton being one species or another really has no impact on the theory of evolution. Gene frequencies in population will still change over time.

wa:do

Well said.
The most exciting part is that we have so much more to find out.
And to ignore the quest for knowledge based on ancient reveled revelations is to wallow in ignorance and reject the wonders of our natural world.

 

[Rakhel]

ancient revelations? oy vey.
again, let me know when they finally get it right.

 

[tumbleweed41]

ancient revelations? oy vey.

Or should I say, literalistic interpretations of 2,400+ year old writings as a basis for understanding the natural world.

 

[Rakhel]

Are you talking about the bible? Cuz I sure wasn't.

 

[Nepenthe]

Almost....
A misconception presented by just one person could have long standing influence.

Was it not Aristotle who taught spontaneous generation?

Yes, but there were plenty of others who did so before him. There were pre-Aristotelians like Anaximenes and Xenophanes who proposed versions of spontaneous generation.

And that teaching stood firm until someone did a proper experiment...
with fly maggots of all things...
to show otherwise.

I've seen one report that now disputes the skeleton of "Lucy".

How do you mean "dispute"? She's an extinct hominid who walked the planet over 3 m.y.a. If you're referring to controversies over where australopithecus afarensis belongs as an ancestor or the mechanics of her locomotion then yes, there are "disputes".

I wish it were easy.
One discovery...one law unchanging.

But each time someone pronounces...'eureka!...I found it'....
Someone else comes along....'you jerk!.....no you didn't!'

This is exactly how science works and why science is the most successful means of examining the world. Science is not dogmatic, it is based on empirical evidence and is subject to change based on further supporting or conflicting empirical evidence. Science changes because our means of examining the universe becomes more and more precise and hypotheses are repeated over and over and some are substantiated while others are refined in favor of better evidence and more clarifying explanations.

Science works for the very reason many here are criticizing it- that is, it works so well because it's not dogma, it is amendable to empirical inquiry and changes based on better evidence.