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Featured Creationism: Is it New? Are creationists by default dishonest& ignorant in basic science?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by firedragon, Nov 1, 2020.

?

Creationists

Poll closed Nov 11, 2020.
  1. Are ignorant of basic science

    66.7%
  2. Are by default dishonest

    26.7%
  3. Are a new phenomena

    30.0%
  4. None of the above

    26.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    If you mean "accepts evolution" then by definition he is not a creationist. Once again you are using the term "creationist" improperly.

    No, he is not. And I already explained to you that when one points out that "there is no such thing as an honest and informed creationist" that means that a creationist could be honest, but uninformed, or informed but dishonest, or both dishonest and uninformed. Your OP was a strawman.
     
  2. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    With all due respect, you are discussing the wrong subject in the wrong thread.

    Its irrelevant. Its your prerogative if you insist, but its just irrelevant and will derail the thread. A request.
     
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  3. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    The implication was there since so often you have gotten what I said wrong.
     
  4. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    So that's wrong.

    Ibne Khaldun was a creationist who propagated evolution.
     
  5. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Your prerogative.
     
  6. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    And you defined why it was dishonest rather well. I will try to give creationists the benefit of the doubt but one cannot debate this topic and not cross over into dishonesty if one is a creationist. All sorts of tactics are used to avoid learning so that they can convince themselves that they are not lying. I find that to be dishonest when one keeps oneself purposefully ignorant.
     
  7. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Nope, once again you do not understand the term "creationist".
     
  8. DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan

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    It is absolutely true what you are saying. It is understandable, but my interest is in revealing the true nature of people, they are not reasonable creatures, they are hate-filled creatures, shallow creatures, and they do indeed find one another to be lying, deceiving, trouble-makers each. Yes, calling someone "dishonest" and a "liar" are "fighting words" that will aggravate, insult, and create conflict.

    Like these fighting words:
    Luke 12:51
    Do you think I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I have come to divide people against each other!

    Matthew 10:34
    Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.

    Luke 12:52
    From now on, five in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three.

    Isaiah 57:4
    Whom do you mock, making faces and sticking out your tongues? You children of sinners and liars!

    1 John 3:10
    So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers does not belong to God.

    John 8:44
    You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

    So, this lying business is quite the big deal apparently as a paternity test.
     
  9. DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan

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    firedragon seems to be using the word to be inclusive of anyone at all who believes God created anything at all in any manner at all, that God is creator, and that thus makes out to be practically any and all theist of any sort for the most part a Creationist by such a broad and inclusive definition, I'm a creationist too then.

    The people that most seem to be thinking of and referring to are the modern Fundamentalist Literalist Christian Creationists who are going under names like "YEC - Young Earth Creationists" and fought that court case and stuff.
     
  10. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Irrelevant to the topic.
     
  11. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    So you are contending that Ibne Khaldun was not a creationist even though he was called a creationist by everyone who ever wrote about him. His book defines him to be a creationist.

    So its just that you are not aware of it.
     
  12. DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan

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    Its the definitions I'm using. I know that the Christians are sincere a lot of the time, maybe most of the time, but if a sincere person goes around telling people something which is not true, which they don't even know themselves, they are spreading falsehood, and so are not being truthful, and truthful is synonymous with honest, regardless of intention or sincerity, if someone is so devoutly and sincerely stupid as to think 2+2=5, it is our duty to clarify to the dimwit that they are wrong, that they are spreading something wrong, that the lie they are stating and falsehood they are spreading can lead to compounded error and miscalculation which can be utterly detrimental and destructive to them, their loved ones who believe them and trust them, and potentially all the world. This is why they need to be disputed with, fought against, argued against, debated, shamed, and stopped from perpetuating lies and being dishonest people with the best of intentions. If I am doing harm, they should do me the same service, and wrestle with me until the truth is brought forth from our rigorous intercourse.
     
  13. DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan

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    He wasn't a YEC in Arkansas.
     
  14. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Brother, debunking another theology is not the topic of the thread. Please open a new thread so that you can discuss it extensively.
     
  15. DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan

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    My point there is that people needn't be so shy about calling out liars and lies, as Jesus didn't seem to be, and is their role-model.
     
  16. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Yep you are right. For some people a young earther is the whole wide world. Arkansas is the universe. And the United state is the multiverse.

    We must learn to be broadminded. Thats my whole point of the OP.

    But you said it right. ;)
     
  17. DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan

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    You brought up the "Creationists", and that term was brought to the popular attention with a group called "YEC" now, who do have a specific theology, which is opposed to modern scientific consensus. I thought it was on topic, and furthermore, the other thing you wrote there was that you used the word "dishonest" which I thought was really interesting, so I jumped on that word full force to try to demonstrate how people who tell lies are by definition liars, even if they don't think what they are saying are lies, and the honesty is in my definition saying what is actually true, and dishonesty is saying what one doesn't know to be true as the truth, that is being dishonest, they are liars.
     
  18. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Lies are lies whoever says it, and its fine to call it as such. But generalising it to almost half of humanity is "bigotry". Dont do that please.
     
  19. DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan

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    Yeah, I really think that when people say "Creationist" they are mainly thinking of people like the YEC, whereas by the broader definition, all of humanity was mainly Creationist, as they believed some things or everything, were Created, but this term "Creationist" has come to be used more narrowly and brings up in people's minds this particular group that is very opposed to scientific consensus and evolution in particular.
     
  20. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    But brother you are discussing the theology of Christians and trying to debate the veracity of Christs divinity. Its a whole other topic. Is that so difficult to understand?
     
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