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Creation vs. Evolution

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Rex, Mar 19, 2004.

  1. inca

    inca Active Member

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    Mr. Spinkles :drink: when I use the adjectives I use them purposely cos I already read how the people disconsider or disregard the religious concepts as "ridiculous". What happens is that people are really ignorant both in science & religion but dare to talk and write. Of course, they feel ofended :mad: when the argument is thrown to their own faces since they believed they were writing "knowing" . So, your response doesn't surprise me. I regret evolution theory doesn't have holes. The whole theory is a superblack hole. Now, when the people make statments overlooking or diminushing the understanding of things , let's say 1000 years ago...it's also due to ignorance cos the books usually pay too much atention to Western civilization and what was understood from the Greeks. That hyper-value of Greek culture is subtly set in our days when science chooses Greek names to lable discoveries, animal or vegetable species, etc. The same happens with Latin culture. Hence, I won't discuss here about religion. If the understanding of science is not upgrade in the ones who make apology of evolution, how come would we expect them to know about religion? The things I have written here is just the top of the iceberg. My discussion here focused just in a couple of things. If I keep on digging the issue will certainly change and we would end taking about a comparision between the speed of an elephant compared with the speed of sauroposseidon or the explanation why the cockroaches were giant as well or birds the size of a horse and I will have to make -AGAIN- a long list of scientists and books, pages, etc, to point out so many items that in fact you're gonna be confused. Don't lable me as if I were something that you don't know. I'm just sharing with you a couple of things, I don't want you to believe in me. Nobody convinces anyone. Sometimes our understanding doesn't even depend on mind but heart attitude. I have seen this in medical congresses in cancer treatment and how do the scientists behave. They are just humans who can (and did) deceive the public with fossils like Hesperopitecus, Piltdown, Orce, Zijanthropus, etc. The people "swallow" the information but they are not skeptical enough. They trust too much without searching. A French guy discovered in Java island the fragments of an "hominid" (if my memory doesn't fail me cos I read that name 18 years ago, the name of the one who discovered the fossils was Dubois), well he discovered the fragments miles distance from other fragments. Yet he said ALL THE FRAGMENTS BELONGED TO THE SAME BEING!!!! Is that science? Just pullling my legs! It's an example.
     
  2. inca

    inca Active Member

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    Ceridwen018: I didn't say you were arrogant. I wanted to say teenagers usually are cos probably their hormones are shouting louder or because they are learning things they consider "new" and grabbed to those ideas. There's nothing new under the Sun. I admitted you are someone who reads and I'm encouraging (perhaps I was too emphatic) to go beyond the average.
    The people here talk about evolution thinking the concept was originally invented by Darwin. Ignorance again & again & again. He studied the thing, of course but he wasn't the first having the idea. It already existed in India and in Buddhism, even the idea of "spontaneous generation". (just to warn the people who diminush the ancient concepts) . Darwin himself was irritated and promoted "his" idea immediately after Pasteur (who believed in Creation) discovered there is no "spontaneus generation" but life comes from already existing invisible life. Yet, the people don't even compared the dates and never learned the "struggle" between them. Of course, probably NOW someone is gonna do the homework, search something by internet and instantly will know everything about it....something I already read 3 decades ago before internet was available.
     
  3. inca

    inca Active Member

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    I encourage you to read Darwin first and study the idea or concept. Now evolution was "adorned", disguised, transform with modern and impressive names. Don't be deceived. Darwin thought the changes-adaptation or mutation will be so great that different species which are not connected whatsoever will eventually (because of time and X circumstances occuring on nature) transform into other: fishes-birds-reptiles-anphibious-mammals-man. Genetic has demonstrated in numerous ocassions that is imposible or even very improbable EVEN BY DIRECT GENETIC MANIPULATION. If in any case the mutation, adaptation transform one specie into another by those means, that never happens in natural condition. So, if one day that achievment is done, it would demonstrate not evolution whatsoever but a direct genetic creation.
    I have said the information decoded by billions of neurons and conections in the brain is something that even make the surgeon specialists or neuro-specialist bow in awe admiration , even comparing that with the number of atoms in the universe. So, there was something more that was the difference between apes and man. The links I posted gave the specific information, the fact we have 223 genes that are not in evolutionary tree in the vertical progression, 25 to 35 proteins of the genes are exclusively human. The creation of several Adamus or Adapas needed an external interference, an external manipulation, the use of specific method (even using clay and the blood of the "gods"). The fact that modern scientific knowledge is only corroborating what was explained in ancient books of different people in different languages is something not to be overlooked. And the ones who discover those things are not inventing.They are just allowing the people to be aware of those scientific facts.
    For example, the people when they read the Bible they don't know the word "snake" is "nahash" while copper is "nehoshet". They ignore -and that is not a sin, it's just a fact- the hidden meaning of "snake" is "the one who knows the secret of copper". In Egypt, the snake was wrapped around a stick in the depiction of VIRGIN Isis, one helper of the goddess grabbed a single snake in a stick while the other grabbed another. What was that?
     
  4. inca

    inca Active Member

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    In the act of conception, when spermatozoid penetrates into the egg cell of the female, the DNA double snake made of "sugar" splits and one of the halves have to be united with the other half to form a new double helix and thus Horus was born. The sceptres meant that. Not too many people are aware some civilizations although they knew iron they prefered the use of copper for reasons I don't wanna explain. Perhaps Nikolai Tesla knew something about it:
    www.keelynet.com/unclass/hardy1.htm
    www.totse.com/en/fringe/tesla/hardy1.html
    www.dowsing.com/Pyramid/pyener.htm
    In Sumer, before Egypt, the snake "nahash" was also the one who knew secrets and there was a sanctuary of "emash" (the sound with "sh" is always present in different languages related to the same god-snake). In Egypt the symbol of the god Ptah was DNA double snake helix. The antiophidian medicine used by Moses (who learned in Egypt) to cure the ones bit by venom snakes was a copper-snake (Numbers 21:6-8). In fact that copper-snake (not bronze as translated in some Bibles) was on exhibition in Jerusalem museum. The son of Mary (in a different procedure of parthenogenesis) talked about himself that to give LIFE (the seed of life from the very Genesis and the struggle between the offspring of the woman against the snake) he had to die. He compared himself with Moses' copper snake (John 3:14). That symbol was known by Incas, Mayas and other civilizations. In fact, the Moches in Peru (as in Mexico, etc) they used "empirically" electricity to golden the copper for reasons too long and too off the theme to write it here and now. But to say it cut to the chase, the objects usually were used in complete darkness and a common architectural "method" was polishing the stones to keep the light off the temples. In complete darkness the "eyes" are opened. We call melatonine the substance originated by pituitary gland. The name comes from Greek and means something working (activate) by night. Serious experiences have confirmed the electromagnetism of the Earth has been affecting all the time the hormons of human beings...including the ones of FERTILITY. No surprise the ancient people were heliolaters cos the Sun is the direct responsible of changes in our planet.
     
  5. inca

    inca Active Member

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    www.mauricecotterell.com/synopsis02.htm
    www.mauricecotterell.com/synopsis03.htm
    I have to say that scientist and engineer is not an amateur. He's someone recognized cos in 1989 he discovered how to calculate the duration of magnetic changes in the Sun. BECAUSE OF THAT KNOWLEDGE he became aware the ancient civilizations already knew the secret, so I encourage you to read "The Lost Tomb of Viracocha", "Supergods" and "Tutankhamon Prophecies" just to know a bit more of religion. You know, culture doesn't bite. Even the orthodox authorities in Mexico awarded him with a medal for his contributions to "Voluntariado Cultural".
    The guy quotes the work of experts in genetic field like the team led by A.R. Lieboff in Navy Medical Research Institute in Bethesda, Maryland and professor Hans Eysenck from London Institute of Psichiatry, also Dr. Ross Aidey, medical advisor of the White House in Reagan's government who discovered in 1987 the production of melatonine is affected immensely by magnetic fields. Yet, all these things were not only known but practiced in ancient civilizations and I don't think I have to demonstrate that in this issue. All what I'm saying now, is the use of certain elements in specific shapes (like copper, pyramids, polished stones to "join" them perfetly producing darkness) under certain circumstances and times (solstices, equinoxes, eclipses) were done on purpose to achieve some things. The evidence is ruins that archeologists are unable to re-build NOT EVEN WITH MINIATURES AND MOCK UP EXPERIENCES (if you don't believe me, pay History Channel and wait to see more). They never said they invented the knowledge or discovered everything they "achieved". Usually they attributed to the "gods"; whether modern criteria accept or not what they manifetsed themselves is completely irrelevant.
    They also had legends that explain how life come on Earth...because of the gods. But, as usual, people only "digest" what is (spoon fed) in the surface.
    North America is the result of the coming of English pioneers who wanted to stablish a home for themselves. They were Protestants. They wiped out almost all different kind of indians who really didn't have civilizations like Mexico or Peru, Bolivia, etc. To Central and South America went the Spaniards and Portuguese who were fed up to fight more than 800 centuries against the Muslim arabs. They belonged to the Catholic church which was a religion on its way down the road in Europe. They didn't go just to stablish a paradise for themselves in the difficult jungle and Dantesque climate. They went to "preach" the religion to the new settlements and make fame & fortune at the same time, using indian slaves first and black slaves imported from Africa afterwards. So, usually most Americans (exceptions confirm the rule) don't have too much knowledge about this particular history. You will love to see the film "ALAMO" cos is part of your history but who the hell wanted to see "1492 the Conquest of the Paradise" about Christopher Columbus? Not even the ones living in Ohio who have the "caravela" ship replica ! Is it still there?
    Therefore, my request is: be humble and learn first. Then after you can write or discuss about whatever you want.
    I think I will end my participation right here but since the issue here was CREATION and not just creation of animal species, the theme should've began back in space-time. Hence, would you like to rewind the space-time tape?:
     
  6. inca

    inca Active Member

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    You can follow the theme during 9 pages under my name, Oscar. You will read not only about Big Bang but specific ancient knowledge given by the "gods". Of course, you will see other people react and have different opinions and the debate continued and continued and continued until I was not allowed to respond no more and the threat was closed by the Moderator. But who really WANTS TO READ AND SEE A DIFFERENT OPINION? I tell you now. Not many. Only the few who have the patience to understand. That's why ignorance is predominant, people just don't wanna "waste time". If I'd thought that way, I would've never learned 3 languages or would be interested in learn a 4th one, Russian.
    www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=22384&page=1&pp=15
    Now, if you'll excuse me, I really would like to stop my participation. I hope I can restrain myself from keep on answering...
     
  7. inca

    inca Active Member

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    Before going..., Spinkles, don't confuse "good manners" with "intelligence". They are not synonyms.
     
  8. inca

    inca Active Member

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    As I said before, most of the fossil records don't present evolution not only from hominids into apes but no evolution at all in any specie, there was no transformation from fish to birds or them into reptiles, mammals, etc or evolution in reverse in some cases. All diferent species appear (having the genetic limitations of their kind but in spite of that with capacity of variations within those limits) and dissapear. In the fossil record you can see an explosion of life in different geological strata as layers in a cake, no link between species. All fossils presented parts complete. Even Darwin was aware of this, that's why in his Origin of Species he begged the readers at least 7 times to ignore what fossil evidence was really saying to understand his idea. He expected in his future those fossils would be provided by paleonthologists' shovel. We have now abundancy of fossils but no intermediary connection between them. The so called best examples of evolution had their parts complete, there was no metamorphosis, no transformation, no hocus-pocus miracle, no half-way adaptation. In a nutshell: no evolution. The fact is fossils never proved your faith. You ask me about time, I'll try to respond honestly:
     
  9. inca

    inca Active Member

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    And IF YOU EVER finishing reading all that, you still wanna know something else (probably 1% of the eventual readers here) you still have too much homework to do:
    About what Hebrew language refers to "tanniynim" in the "pardes" (dinosaurs in Jurassic Park):
    www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-241.htm
    http://s8int.com/dinolit1.html
    (that one is 7 pages to check with real photos, not hoaxes)
    www.anzwers.org/free/livedragons/evolutio.htm
    www.anzwers.org/free/livedragons/dragon.htm
    www.anzwers.org/free/livedragons/framset14.htm
    http://s8int.com/dino1.html
    (8 pages to be seen with more photos)
    http://s8int.com/mega1.html
    (3 pages to follow with even more astonishing photos and explanation)
    www.apologeticspress.org/rr/rr2003/r&r0302a.htm
    www.anzwers.org/free/livedragons
    Wanna read about false fossils and what are fossils?:
    www.anzwers.org/free/livedragons/birdbone.htm
    http://evolition.cjb.net
    http://s8int.com/boneyard1.html
    Fossiles "alive":
    www.icr.org/pubs/btg-a/btg-143a.htm
    Sophisticated cave men:
    http://s8int.com/sophis1.html
    (10 pages to be studied)
    DNA versus evolution:
    http://s8int.com/dna1.html
    (3 pages to be studied).
    Of course I can literally make HUNDREDS of references in books and sites, and names and pages. This is just a sample. Of course, I guess someone NEEDS to give a quick reply. He wouldn't even take hours of his time in order to study and check, even printing the information to read it calmly and not with tired eyes in front of the screen of the desktop, but will immediately answer something in less than 5 minutes.
    :talk: :clap:
     
  10. inca

    inca Active Member

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    Let's say our universe is 5 billion years old. I really don't trust too much in the data giving by methods used. Because they are not measuring time in first place but activity on time which is different and based upon some speculations. We don't even know when were the sphinx and pyramids constructed and egyptologist get furious when geologists contradict their data cos they see this as interference in their "science" in particular. So, if we can't measure even historical time, I doubt we can measure accurately prehistory. Even measuring ligh years distance it's used paralax method which is trigonometry that should'nt be applied to far away stars but only near stars but if I give more explanation I would be off topic. In spite of this, I don't have much problem in accepting the universe as old as 5 billion years old cos the Creationists never understood this point correctly as Jewish scholar would.
    That date is seen only from the perspective of space-time reference of the place we are. :angel:
    The kabalistic reference are based WHEN the universe was the size of the mustard seed. :roll: The expansion of the universe changes the temporal perception. Einstein, as a Jew who believed in pantheism and yet wrote personal letters to his friend in reference to Hebrew God applied his intelect to what Judaism knew. In a standard cosmology, if an Et :angel: uses a laser beam to shoot an impulse every second, the recorded information in optical fibers would say "I'm sending an impulse per second" and will repeat the impulse every second. In a universe in expansion that information won't reach its destiny a second later, perhaps it would take billions of years later on depending on the time the light traveled in space. :eek:mg: In the books of physic you read the "beginning" of the universe (only accepted by modern science from 1965 on cos prior to that 2/3 of scientists believed in Greek philosophers thinking there was no beginning of the cosmos at all) and time is 1 followed by many zeros. If Torah says "we're sending information every 6 days" the information would be received as 16 billion years (you can even transform X millions of millions days and divide by 365) and the rsult will be equal.
    The rythm of acceleration is the Principles of Physic Cosmology: Every time the universe duplicates, the perception of time divides in the middle. When universe was small it duplicated faster, when it gets bigger it takes more time to duplicate.
    The first Biblical "day" lasted 24 hours according to Jewish believe, but that is the perspective of the beginning of time itself. In our perspective is 8 billion years. The second day lasted 24 hours (in our point of view that is half of the previous day, or 4 billion years). The 3rd day lasted half the previous (in our perspective 2 billion years old) and so the rest of "days". The understanding of simultaneous times or two different ticking of the superbalck hole and darkness in Genesis account is something proved in kabalistic writings. This is no modern concept or interpretation. Scientist George Ferrows (not a Creationist) calculated the probability against entropy or gravity appearing by itself in a number followed by 123 zeros never happening in nature. He recognizes the universe urges the believe in a "creator". He used that word rather than "god". And of course, this is not an anecdote :drink: cos he was using math which is an exact science though U-know-Who will never understand that.
     
  11. inca

    inca Active Member

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    I discussed the subject about scientific methods and the thread was closed after responses of "socratic method" dodging the issue I was mentioning in detail:
    http://egyptologist.org/discuss/messages/8/1766.html?1014780427
    The collegues of the biggest Egyptologist Egyptian authority -Dr. Hawass- were irritated with me all over the forum but they couldn't answer my questions or contradict the arguments. Until now my messages under my name Oscar are still there. Others were "erased" conveniently. You'll see my thread was the only one closed in that page:
    http://egyptologist.org/discuss/messages/8/8.html?1084755064
    In yet another one I was discussing dendrochronology and they left only the last post when I was soliciting an answer to a question but they erased the whole discussion before!
    So, even when I don't have problem the POSSIBILITY to apply simulatenous times and the perspective of millions of years in our universe or Earth, it doesn't mean we know everything about it. Wanna know why?
     
  12. inca

    inca Active Member

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    I wonder, how many pseudo-evolutionists ever heard about the Meganthropus and Gigantopithecus. Certainly this is not gonna be shown in museums with the official authorities protecting the same old dogmas. If in Jalapa museum in Mexico they hid a toy with elephant figure done by Mayas (cos the public was asking how come if Mayas supposedly never went to India or Africa and they didn't receive the presence of Hindus and African before Columbus), they prefered to hide it. The same can be said about the dungeons in Smithsonian Institute not visited by the tourists. You're not gonna see elephant designs in museums in Colombia or Ecuador although not one or two but several have been discovered there too.
    www.faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/ethnic/jpg/fig128.jpg
    www.faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/ethnic/jpg/fig131.jpg
    www.faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/ethnic/jpg/fig133.jpg
    http://hesyra/djoserempfoto.jpg
    www.equinox-project.com/esop81.htm
    I hope they didn't ERASE it from the web as always do after a time as they did with a couple of sites I had. It's obvious the expert archeologists and historians MUST give another stupid interpretation, they will invent that Chaac Mool Maya god was a parrot (with proboscide!!) or a rattle-snake or even a bat! If they do that with history, imagine what they can do with pre-history.
     
  13. inca

    inca Active Member

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    The conversation was this:
    Process uranium-lead is expensive, they prefer using the unsafe rubidium-stroncium.Carbon 14 which turns out nitrogen 14 half-life is only 5730 years and ain`t efficient if there was MORE MAGNETIC proportion in the past of the atmosphera (some discuss it happened 4000 years ago),it shouldn`t be used on stone. A dead seal moments after was dated 1300 years old, Siberian mamooth skin (animal which lived 26,000 years ago as suposition)was dated only 5600 years. One of the swiss members in a laboratory measured a recent piece of cloth on his table and the result with this cientific method was 350 years old! Even the pioneers using C-14 didn`t give it the credit now it`s been given. Many people think even nuke disasters affected our atmosphera to the point it altered all measuring of activity in time. Argon-potasium half life is 1300 million years and determines volccanic rock.The scientists have to GUESS the bones beneath rock may be equal data or older. It ain`t exact in dates less than 1 million and they must have faith in using human beings of Pleistocene or believe volcanic action DISSAPEARED ABSOLUTELY ALL original argon in melted lava. If it remains a little bit, cristalyzed, if there was atmospheric pollution, if sediments below are younger..a simple date 5000 is INFLATED 2 and a half million! Proportion between uranium 238 and lead 206 in wood converted coal should be low but it wasn`t in all cases. Potasium,uranium,torium lost of radiactivity can`t be measured in amounts if we don`t know zero point of ORIGINAL CONCENTRATION. The same elements and rubidium-stroncium can be damaged by radiation itself. Aminoacids don`t serve in stones. Also the organic rests can be asimilated or destroyed by organic acids. Zircon crystals formed in magma are difficult to find and geo-chemists grab these as a gift of God. They are trying to find out levogire aminoacids and date with optic stimulated luminiscense.Another method is watching rings of the trees,etc. So please, DON`T TALK ABOUT ABSOLUTS NOR IN HISTORY NEITHER IN PRE-HISTORY.In matter of time we`re watching time with a clock without pointers! This certainly concerns historians,geologists,egyptologists. Maybe you can say, ok,we can trust better astronomers. Can we? They use trigonometry to see distances of far away stars,yet they trust paralex method that should be applied to NEAR STARS.A celestial object would move in relation to set constelations near us when observed from 2 distant points on the surface of the Earth.The smallest angle we can stare naked eye is just a minute of a bow or 1|60 of 1 degree. Einstein said nothing about finite or infinite volume of space.Using cristalography to detect space topology now a new theory rises. It seems billions of galaxies REPEAT images of smaller galaxies. Using hipersphere or poincare space (a kind of dodecaedr)with 120 times smaller volume than hipersphere, they are guessing our universe is like spheric lens,maybe smaller and creating OPTIC ILLUSIONS.We`re like fishes in acuarium.


    Brent Benjamin (12.4.169.51)
    Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 02:02 pm:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Oscar, it is a common ploy of fringies to be dismissive of all dating techniques which disagree with their agendas. In support of their positions, they posit any number of claimed errors and the like, all the meantime ignoring the vast body of knowledge supporting the controlled tests. I don't know your positions, so I don't apply this to you. However, when you have multiple scientifically (meaning the ability to meet the rigors of objective peer-review) accepted chronological models converging on a discrete time frame for a given article, you have a time frame which it is reasonable to accept. In the OK, C-14 is only one of several models giving the time frame for construction. Those models have been reviewed extensively in past strings.


    Rick (24.25.208.10)
    Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 09:44 pm:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Great post Brent! You neatly summarized all of the points for the age of the pyramids being correct, while pointing out the flaws in the fringe's thinking. I assume this is the "socratic method" at work?


    Brent Benjamin (12.4.169.51)
    Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2002 - 10:27 pm:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    No, Rick. Not the "socratic method." Rather, the "scientific method."
     
  14. inca

    inca Active Member

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    You decide if mastodont or elephant. That's why elephant tou was eliminated from Jalapa museum. The people could ask irritating questions!
    I think I'll rest my case.
     
  15. inca

    inca Active Member

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    In that forum, Erik and Brent butter up each other but never answered the questions. In fact, the one who runs the site is friend of one of them. There was another thread closed too. It was someone who wrote about Khufu's math and that issue also irritated the "moderator". About space-time:
    A scientist requires more than memorizing formulas, he requires imagination. We have read many times and saw the images in Scientific American and books or other magazines about the deformation of the space, the illustration of the iron ball upon a sheet and the smaller balls been affected by the weigh of the ball on the tissue. No example can really duplicate reality. In this case it’s obvious the “orbits” of smaller balls would stop after a while side by side with the bigger ball. Repeating the experience in space without the effect of gravity (or distant from the Earth whose mass is deforming the space) the iron ball and the rest of balls will float. Kaku imagined the point of view of fishes inside the aquarium if they were taken out from their liquid universe. Hawkings thinks in bubbles connected with other soap bubbles-universes via bridges or wormholes. Hence, I would like to use the “liquid” example AND CONTINUE TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA HOW SCIENCE IS SOLD TO US:
    A blue ping-pong ball represents Earth, other balls are floating in a swimming pool filled with black ink or black paint rather than crystal water. Jupiter can be represented as an orange basketball. You can spread colorful dust above the black liquid surface in your imagination.
    Meanwhile, Mr self-centered Mr Q-virus dwelling on blue ping-pong ball discusses “you’re talking trees…” and virus-Oscar (Inca) replies “don’t worry, several virus are already talking about the ‘theory of everything’ cos all is linked to each other, besides some other virus are saying the planet-balls are changing position and are behaving strange just like the big yellow fire-ball Sun”. Other Virus-participant exclaims ‘Prove it!’ Oscar-virus answers: “it’s difficult to know for sure, we have sent our telescopes and satellites which are big and yet in virus-scale and to see what is going on from this corner of the swimming pool is like using a micro-camera in a corner of a baseball stadium, no panoramic comprehension! You can send cesium watches, devices, but the results are gonna be pretty similar to our ping-pong blue ball. When the device is reaching the Sun-ball the virus salute each other watching the things in their virus scale. They take photographs of the “universe”:
    http://users.skynet.be/sky03361/html2/trip2.html
    You know what, there are other virus saying there’s a hole in the center of the swimming pool and they say it’s actually swallowing liquid black space like virus-actor Hannibal Canibal Anthony Hopkins. I don’t think we’re gonna know for sure how is this thing change our position (and therefore our time as observed in each ball), but I guess we’re approaching to a position in which the acceleration will come due to the whirlpool”. “In fact”, he adds, “it will be like the orbits of the balls are getting too close to each other, closer and closer before entering and be sucked by the swimming pool’s mouth”.www.nasca.org/uk/danger/danger.html
    Mr-Q-Virus answers: “You’re insane, are you stone or something?” “That’s the Great Atractor or group of superclusters (greater than 10^15 solar masses) which is pulling Milky Way (only 15 Mpc in length) towards it at 600,000 mls”. “Yap!, but I’m not talking JUST about the Milky Way, I’m taking about the whole black liquid in the universal swimming pool, the spiral, the Fibonacci, like the virus who’s placed in the first song of the vinyl record and traveling at the same revolutions per minute than the virus placed in the last song, when they start to walk around the axis or center of the vinyl record there are three times, the time of the movement of the record itself (45 revolutions by minute), the long time the virus of the first song requires to walk above the vinyl record to complete a circle, and the shorter time to do the same for the virus who’s walking in the last song in smaller diameter, got it?”
    At the very same time the virus-astronauts out from blue ping-pong ball’s ionosphere start to feel awfully bad because the lack of natural pulsation of 7,8 cycles in the same wave of their virus-cerebral masses as Shumann waves, electric storms cause severe damage in their virus-hearts. They get back to ping-pong blue pall to correct some damages in artificial generators of Shumann waves.
    Yet, without these virus know, other virus in other part of the blue ping-pong ball are arguing the borders of the swimming pool were made of mirror, so they guess the reflection gave the false impression of a bigger swimming pool with more black ink or black paint liquid space. Somewhere else, the Russian-virus and a fistful of American-virus went beyond and shout: “The swimming pool is not rectangular, circular, or with the shape of a guitar but it seems to be a dodecahedron”.
    Oscar-virus continues: “Don’t you worry, country-fellow-virus self-MR Q, we’re probably gonna pass through the whirlpool black hole in the middle of the swimming pool and though millions will perish (too shaky) and there will be survivors cos the black liquid will go into other swimming pool, everything will preserve. Yet the other swimming pool is built in different way and various levels and submitted to currents running in opposite directions. “What? Are you nuts? Don’t you know everything will be collapsed and we will all be transformed into spaguetti-virus stretched by the gravity and supersingularity of that wormhole?”
    “Wait a second”
    –answer an intruder virus- “it all depends if the vehicle blue ping-pong-Earth passes through the ring or border of the hole”…Yet, other virus desperate outcries “no, this ain’t real, it’s just an hologram, in fact every ball and all inhabitant virus of the swimming pool (even the ones existing into our image and resemblance in the balls beyond) are just part of the game of light, the hologram gave the illusion of dodecahedron swimming pool, the black liquid in it, the mirror borders and everything else, if someone who is not light tries to touch the illusion, there will be nothing there and it will pass through the illusion…A virus in the middle of the conference asks: “what causes the hologram?” Nobody knows and everybody shut up and a silent virus doesn’t even dare to ask if there’s something unique that is not illusion, something in fact REAL, a belt of photons, a crystal or God…and the virus discussion continues ad infinitum…
     
  16. inca

    inca Active Member

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    So when you think about physics & metaphysics, space and time, we're entering in the realm of speculation , contradictory ideas and the use of exact science in math but interpreted in different ways according to the licking of particular scientist. And sometimes you ask yourself how can you distinguish science from science fiction and philosophy like Descartes or Imanuel Kant if everything is an illusion or if time can exist in time itself or space within space, etc, something I discussed in my Spanish site regarding the first film Matrix in:
    www.therealmatrix.cjb.net
    www.therealmatrix.rg3.net
    Though I wrote pretty much in Portuguese as well and perhaps Russian in the future. Yet I can make the things even more complex for the evolutionists if I quote this:
    www.expanding-earth.org
     
  17. inca

    inca Active Member

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    OOOPS, I wrote "licking" instead of "liking"!
     
  18. inca

    inca Active Member

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    If 1% of the readers is capable and patiente enough to read 21 pages of that site, that would be good. Yet it's not the only one with this idea. To say the story in a nutshell:
    The Earth has been expanding as well like the Universe. It once had the shape of an egg and now is getting flatter in the poles and has a bigger belly in Equator area. The "days" were shorter and the "years" were different (you were asking about time, weren't you?) and so the uniformitarian theory saying the present is the key to understand the past is also a flaw cos we don't know the events of the past; we are unsure of how Earth came into existence or even the Moon. We ignore the forces splitting Pangea continent or the gravity allowing the supercontinent in first place. If a meteor wiped out dinosaurs and other species, the very mass had to be added to the Earth and the planet was affected too. There's evidence in the bubbles of air preserved in amber that the amount of oxygen was different from now and perhaps not only the ticking of time (days and years) is completely based upon hypothesis but there's no way to know (only guess) even density, atmosphere and gravity was completely different from now and that would explain the gigantism (not as isolated mutation) of dinosaurs and even cockroaches , birds the size of horses, plants, etc. Something that should've been explained by geologists in first place and not paleonthologist! Elephants were dwarfs compared with sauroposseidon and yet some of the dinosaurs were faster than a baby elephant that has problems to get out of mud sometimes or even can't breath in certain position. I have discussed the issue with specialists and they are always irritated, so if anyone wants to open a new thread trying to prove me wrong, go ahead, make my day! All what I write is not to give the impression we know enough. All the opposite, is to make clear that everything you took for granted as truth maybe is not and we need to know a lot in order to set the pieces of the huge jigsaw puzzle in order. It ain't easy, I tell ya.
     
  19. Mr Spinkles

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    :lol: :lol:

    inca, that is the most bizarre bunch of rambling I've ever heard. You didn't answer my question, so I'll post it again.

    If humans didn't evolve, then why don't we find any human fossils way back in the fossil record? Why, instead, are there so many fossils that appear to be partly ape, then half ape half human, then partly human, then mostly ape? What is your alternative theory to explain these observations?
     
  20. SpiritualSon

    SpiritualSon Member

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    In Genesis, creation means regeneration of by God. Evolution is of the natrual world. They are connect by correspondences. The natural world was here before Adam and Eve. They were not the first people one earth. Where did Mrs Cain come? The story of Adam and Eve are representation of the first church on earth. The natrual world was already here when the book of Genesis was written.

    Genesis 1: 1. In the beginning God created the heavens [coelum] and the earth. The most ancient time is called "the beginning." By the prophets it is in various places called the "days of old" [antiquitatis] and also the "days of eternity."

    The "beginning" also involves the first period when man is being regenerated, for he is then born anew, and receives life. Regeneration itself is therefore called a "new creation" of man.

    The expressions to "create" to "form" to "make" in almost all parts of the prophetic writings signify to regenerate, yet with a difference in the signification.

    As in Isaiah:
    Everyone that is called by My name, I have created him for My glory, I have formed him, yea, I have made him (Isa. 43:7).

    And therefore the Lord is called the "Redeemer" the "Former from the womb" the "Maker" and also the "Creator;" as in the same Prophet:
    I am Jehovah your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King (Isa. 43:15).

    In David:
    The people that is created shall praise Jah (Ps. 102:18).
    Again:
    Thou sendest forth Thy spirit, they are created, and Thou renewest the faces of the ground (Ps. 104:30).

    That "heaven" signifies the internal man, and "earth" the external man before regeneration.

    Harry
     
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