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Creation Story similarities

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by yaddoe, Feb 3, 2012.

  1. yaddoe

    yaddoe Kyle Adams

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    2,261
    Have you ever read any of the old Native American creation stories?
    When I read the old Onondaga Indian creation story The Earth on the Turtle's Back, I found it a curious thing that it has so many similarities with the story of Adam and Eve.

    - The Sky people realm and the earthly realm
    - The Great Fall into mortality
    - A tree that has something to do with this fall into mortality

    Same thing with the Navajo Origin Legend

    - Great emphasis on the breath of Life

    The Iroquois Creation story is really fascinating

    - An upper world and a lower world
    - Again the fall of mankind
    - The world lay in darkness and deep water before the earth was formed.

    The Quiche Mayan people even believe in a great flood.

    Does anyone else see some similarities or is it just me?
     
  2. fishy

    fishy New Member

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    850
    "Discworld" had a turtle with 4 elephants on it's back.
     
  3. Gjallarhorn

    Gjallarhorn N'yog-Sothep

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    9,781
    I'm waiting for the inevitable "This proves that my religion is right even though my proof stems from a religion I think is less right than my own".
     
  4. Madhuri

    Madhuri RF Goddess Staff Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    15,079
    Religion:
    Bhagavad Gita - SD
    The flood is a story in many religions. The Turtle is a curious one. I know it's mention in Vedas (Hinduism), although it is purely allegorical.

    The comparison you make between the Turtle story and Adam and Eve I think is reaching.
     
  5. ChristineES

    ChristineES Tiggerism Staff Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    24,279
    Religion:
    Disciple of Yeshua.
    This isn't the first time I've heard this, other cultures have similar stories. I don't know if they all came from the same original source (there's no way of knowing that), that certainly have had variations with each passing on. Folklore started out as word of mouth. :)
    It doesn't prove or disprove anything, but I find it rather fascinating.
     
  6. connermt

    connermt New Member

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    1,138
    Religions from various cultures, and even total opposite sides of the globe, share a lot of their stories. Some even share physical objects.
    Yet many religious leaders discount these "occurences" as nothing more than no value of their own faith. Some even go as far as saying they were "planted there" in an effort to weed out the true believers.
    Desperate times call for disperate measures.
     
  7. Nakosis

    Nakosis Well-Known Member

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    3,352
    Unfortunately we interpret the meaning of the words so the similarities we see in the meaning of concepts written by different authors/cultures may all be in our head.

    However there is also a commonality to existence as a human being on earth that some of those concepts can be based on similar experiences that a large number of different people from different places and time may encounter.

    However there are no guarantees.
     
  8. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Superstylin' Staff Member Premium Member

    Messages:
    38,429
    Religion:
    None (atheist)
    Indeed.

    It's not news that floods happen fairly frequently. Sometimes they even lay waste to everything in a whole region. You don't need one simultaneous worldwide flood to explain widely scattered flood myths.
     
  9. yaddoe

    yaddoe Kyle Adams

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    2,261
    I agree, I never said it proved or disproved anything, its just interesting information that I find to be a curious thing. I just wanted to hear what others thought about it.

    So far I have
    -The LDS standpoint - The Native Americans are of Hebrew Decent (Further Evidence can be found in the Ancient Ohio Hebrew hieroglyphs)
    - another standpoint - God put similarities in other religions to weed out the unbelievers
    - and the third standpoint - Its all purely coincidence. Floods happen all over, trees are all over and people trip and fall everyday.
     
  10. fallingblood

    fallingblood Agnostic Theist

    Messages:
    9,822
    If you look at the stories in very broad terms, yes, there are many similarities. One can find them in the Hindu stories of creation as well.

    The Biblical creation story though seems to be most similar to those from the Mesopotamia region. The Enuma Elish comes to mind.
     
  11. yaddoe

    yaddoe Kyle Adams

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    2,261
    So is it a coincidence, a lure to weed out the unbelievers, or are they all different versions linking back one root story?
     
  12. fallingblood

    fallingblood Agnostic Theist

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    9,822
    It's partially coincidence, as well as stretching. There are basic components of myths that we can expect. Floods that are grossly exaggerated are one such component. A fall is also a logical component.

    Now, there is some versions that are linked. A number of scholars argue that the Biblical creation stories are linked to those from Mesopotamia. And there are good reasons for that (as in the similarities being a little more closer than one would expect from mere coincidence).
     
  13. yaddoe

    yaddoe Kyle Adams

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    2,261
    Yes, but I'm talking about Mesopotamia and America, I think there is quite a distance there.
     
  14. fallingblood

    fallingblood Agnostic Theist

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    9,822
    In that regard, I see it as nothing more than a coincidence. There are apparent similarities; however, they are very general in nature, and usually require a more broad interpretation. That or they are just common ideas that we see in myth.

    I do find it interesting comparing creation stories, but the similarities I see are just coincidence.
     
  15. idav

    idav Being Staff Member Premium Member

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    11,496
    Religion:
    Pantheist
    There are many similarities that don't seem to have geographical boundaries. It could mean a few things. One thing it tells me is that there isn't anything special about the information and since we are all humans we think alike and come to similar ideas using the evidence around us. Just like people around the world building pyramids or the whole idea of building into the sky to reach the heavens, we all have ideas of aiming for the same thing.
     
  16. yaddoe

    yaddoe Kyle Adams

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    2,261
    Yah I was about to say something about the pyramids.
    So what do you think about the Hebrew inscriptions found in Ohio?
    Another coincidence?

    [youtube]NgnRN-GOLLI[/youtube]
    Native Americans Wrote in Ancient Hebrew - YouTube

    You know I am really curious about the Hindu similarities in origin stories, I'm going to have to go do some research over in that direction to find out more.
     
  17. Quagmire

    Quagmire Imaginary talking monkey Staff Member Premium Member

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    42,922
    Actually, you're talking about Mesoptamia and Mesoamerica, to point out another similarity. :D

    Mesoamerica - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  18. yaddoe

    yaddoe Kyle Adams

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    2,261
  19. fallingblood

    fallingblood Agnostic Theist

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    9,822
    No, a conspiracy theory. Most write this off as a hoax. First, the inscription is post-Exilic. If it was from a lost tribe, it would have been pre-Exilic. That, and we would expect some evidence of the Hebrews traveling to Ohio, which we simply don't. It would be as if they just all of a sudden appear in Ohio, and then disappeared again.
    Here is an article I wrote regarding one of the Hindu creation stories (there are a number of Hindu creation stories): Articles | Belzian
     
  20. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

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    15,370
    You're seeing what you want to see in modernized/westernized versions of the stories and the "Hebrew writing" is a hoax.

    The Dine (Navajo) creation story is so different from the Biblical one that it's almost silly that you bring it up. The others are also extremely dissimilar to the Bible.

    wa:do
     
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