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Creation of Universe according to Bible & Quran

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Ali Ansari, May 20, 2006.

  1. Ali Ansari

    Ali Ansari Member

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    Creation of Universe according to Bible & Quran

    First of all I want to say that Islam is the only non-Christian faith, which makes it an article of faith to believe in Jesus (pbuh). No Muslim is a Muslim if he does not believe in Jesus (pbuh).

    Now come to the point.

    Creation of the universe according to Bible.

    Bible says in Genesis Ch. No. 1 Verses No. 3 and 5...'Light was created on the first day.' Genesis, Ch., 1 Verses, 14 to 19... 'The cause of light - stars and the sun, etc. was created on the fourth day'. How can the cause of light be created on the 4th day-later than the light which came into existence on the first day?

    Further, the, Bible says Genesis, Ch. 1, Verses 9 to 13... 'Earth was created on the 3rd day. How can you have a night and day without the earth? The day depends upon the rotation of the Earth Without the earth created, how can you have a night and day?

    Genesis, Ch. No. 1 Verses 9 to 13 says... 'Earth was created on the third day.' Genesis Ch. No. 1 Verses 14 to 19 says...'The Sun and the Moon were created on the fourth day.' Today science tells us... 'Earth is part of the parent body... the sun.' It cannot come into existence before the sun.

    This is supposed to be word of God, God Does Not Know how he created the Universe.

    Now look what Quran Says about creation of universe.

    The Quran contains the following verse regarding the origin of Universe

    Al-Quran 21-30

    “Do not the unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation) before we clove them asunder?”

    The striking similarity between the Quranic verse and “the Big Bang” is inescapable! How could a book, which first appeared in the deserts of Arabia 1400 years ago, contain this profound scientific truth?

    The expansion of the universe is now an established scientific fact. This is what the Quran says regarding the nature of the universe.

    Al-Quran 51:47

    “With power and skill did we construct the Firmament:
    For it is we who create the vastness of space.”

    The Arabic word Musioon is correctly translated as expanding it and it refers to the creation of the expanding vastness of the universe.
     
  2. Karl R

    Karl R Active Member

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    What human's know about the creation of the universe would fill a library ... and that library would be dwarfed by what we still don't know.

    The creation story in the old testament of the bible is a few paragraphs long. It is obviously the super-condensed version. It was not intended to be a scientific treatise on creation. It's a brief summary that says one thing: god made everything.

    When I want to understand the science behind the universe, I read a book about science, not a book about ethics.
     
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  3. Jerrell

    Jerrell Active Member

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    1) That's nice that you beleive in Jesus, but you still dont follow him or the religion he began, that is Christianity. And you dont beleive in the same Jesus we do.

    Your Jesus said "God has no Son", While Jesus claimed he was the son of God
    John 10:36 - Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
    Frequently in the Old Testament God had a son(Israel), while yet, a Pagan who became Muslim 600 years after Jesus says God has no son...you believe him.

    2) It is good that you study the Bible, but is it legal for you to do this in your Muslim country? I say yet again it comes to the point that men try to find flaws in each other's Holy Books. I can find flaws in yours, such as when the Quran says the sun sets into a pond, and when it supports the Scriptures of the People of the Books, then it turns to dsicredit them.

    Tell me, WHen do you beleive the Scriptures were Corrupted, Before or After Muhaamud?

    -In Genesis when it says God created light, God essentially created the law of Light and it's ability to exist, after this he created objects to give off light. Keep in mind the suin is not light, but it gives off light, light had to be created first before these objects could give off light.

    3) You said "Today science tells us... 'Earth is part of the parent body... the sun.' It cannot come into existence before the sun." Alot of so called Science is false...anyways i have to go, I'm at school....O_O
     
  4. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    That sounds good in theory, be we do not view Jesus as the same person. As you must have realised by now, in Christianity, Jesus is true son of God, born of the Virgin Mary, and is part of the Trinity.
     
  5. Ali Ansari

    Ali Ansari Member

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    But my point is the book which is from God should not contain errors.
    both the Quran and Bible talk about science and Quran is matching perfectly with established science but bible don't.
     
  6. Ali Ansari

    Ali Ansari Member

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    we don't have to because Bible was only meant for the children of Israel, for that time. It is mentioned in the Gospel of Mathew, Ch. No. 10, Verse No. 5 and 6, Jesus Christ peace be upon him tells his disciples… 'Go ye not in the way of the Gentiles.' Who are the Gentiles? The Non-Jews, the Hindus, the Muslims 'But rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.' Jesus Christ peace be upon him said in the Gospel of Mathew, Ch. No. 15, Verse No. 24… 'I am not sent, but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.' So Jesus Christ and the Bible, were only meant for the children of Isreal.
    Qur'an is meant for the whole of human kind. And Prophet Mohammed, may peace be upon him, was not sent only for the Muslims or the Arabs. Allah says in the Qur'an in Surah Ambiya Ch. No. 21, Verse No. 107 That We have send thee as a mercy, as a guidance, to the whole of humankind.'
    our Jesus don't say that "God has no son" but God(Allah) says
    "Say: 'He is Allah, the One and Only;
    Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
    He begetteth not, nor is He begotten'"
    [Al-Qur'an 112:1-3]

    discription of Jesus(pbun) according to Islam

    We believe that he was one of the mightiest Messengers of Allah (swt).

    we believe that he was born miraculously, without any male intervention, which many modern day Christians do not believe.

    We believe he was the Messiah translated Christ (pbuh).

    We believe that he gave life to the dead with God's permission.

    We believe that he healed those born blind, and the lepers with God's permission.

    Untill you are logical you will never find any flaw, any Contradiction on any thing against established Science. you may think that some thing is wrong but that does not meen that Quran is wrong.
    like you said."sun sets into a pond" I don't know from where you took this. but as I think you are refering to Surah Kahf Chapter No.18, Verse No.86, that… 'Zulqarnain sees the sun setting in murky water in turbid water
    The Arabic word used here is. it is 'wajada' meaning, 'it appeared to Zulqarnain. if you look up in the dictionary also, it means it appeared.' So Allah Subhanawataala is describing what appeared to Zulqarnain.
    If you want more explanation on this I will give you and If you have other problems with Quran do tell me.
    before. may be after also I don't know for sure.
    this is not so called Science it is a established truth.
     
  7. Ali Ansari

    Ali Ansari Member

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    he is the same person(I have given the discription of him according to Islam in above post) but the difference is you say that he is the begotten son of God and is part of trinity.

    but Allah says in Quran in Surah Maryam, Chapter 19 verse 88 to 92
    "They say: '(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!'
    Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!
    As if the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin.

    about trinity

    "Say not 'Trinity': desist:
    It will be better for you for
    Allah is one God."
    [Al-Qur'an 4:171]
     
  8. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    For you, as a follower of Islam, that may be true. However, I use the Bible and therefore do not accept what you say.

    That is the difference between Islam and Christianity. You are welcome to your beliefs, as I am to mine.
     
  9. Green Kepi

    Green Kepi Active Member

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    Ali Ansari...
    May I ask you to think on these points...I don't worry that you won't agree with me, not many "so-called" Christians do either. Anyway, concerning the Story of Creation...I believe that "In the beginning..." is before the first day of Creation. What I mean by thas...is that Genesis states God (which was actually God allowing Jesus to create it - John 1:3) created the heavens and the earth. It states, "Now the earth was formless and empty". The Hebrew word for "was" should be translated "became". Jeremiah 4 & Isaiah 24:1 tells me why. In other words, the Hebrew word "hayah" means the earth was not created without form and void, but that it became that way at some point in time after it was created. "Without form" was translated from the Hebrew word, "tohuw" that means to lie waste, a desolation. You cannot lie waste or desolate something unless it was once in good condition and then at some later time it was destroyed. The original Hebrew should be translated, "...and it came to pass that the earth became a lifeless wasteland empty and chaotic.

    I think that this means the earth was flooded, desolate and in darkness. For some reason that we are not told...God destoryed the first earth and what/whoever was on it. The "waters" could have been water and ice covered with a dark atmosphere. This theory might explain why the mammoths were frozen so quickly that many still had food in their mouths.

    As you can tell...I don't believe in the "young earth" creationism. I believe the Bible and the geological record are in agreement. The light before the Sun on the 4th day? I don't think anyone knows for sure. Remember, the order of events are not the same in Chapter 1 and Chapter 2...Chapter 2 begins with a description of circumstances that existed only on the 3rd day of creation.

    There's alot more, but let me see what you think before I continue. Look forward to hearing from you...thanks....
     
  10. Ali Ansari

    Ali Ansari Member

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    you know you have just recited a verse of Quran
    Al Quran Ch: 109 verse: 2-6
    "I worship not that which ye worship,
    nor will ye worship that I worship,
    And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
    Nor will ye worship that which I worship,
    To you be your way, and to me mine."

    any way I am not trying to prove any thing with this.
     
  11. Ali Ansari

    Ali Ansari Member

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    well my point is how can earth be created before the sun how can the light be created before the sun.
    and there is big list which you all know of.
     
  12. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    There are scientific innaccuracies in the Quran.

    27:61 says the Earth is fixed and does not move. Science tells us this is false.
     
  13. Green Kepi

    Green Kepi Active Member

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    Ali...
    How should I know? God will explain it all someday. He knows how He did it. I suppose all He had to say was..."Let there be light"...& boom! There was light. With God, He doesn't have to have the "little-bitty" sun to provide light. :shrug: Dang...we can't explain any of the other either in human terms....
     
  14. Ali Ansari

    Ali Ansari Member

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    I like these types of Questions. Thanks
    Now you said that Quran is saying that Earth is fixed and does not move.
    We have come to know today - the Geologists, they tell us, that the radius of the Earth is approximately 3750 miles, and the deeper layers, they are hot and fluid, and cannot sustain life. And the superficial part of the Earth’s crust, which we live on, it is very thin - Hardly 1 to 30 miles. Some portions are thicker, but majority one to 30 miles. And there are high possibility that this superficial layer, the Earth’s crust - it will shake. It is due to the ‘Folding phenomenon’, which gives rise to mountain ranges, which gives stability to this Earth. And the Quran says in the verse you have quoted 27:61.
    It says ‘who has made the earth firm to live in…’
    The Quran says in 88:19 and 79:32 “And We have made the mountains standing firm on the Earth” - Made the mountains standing firm on the Earth. Today after modern Geology has advanced’ The Geologists today, do say that the mountains give stability to the Earth Not all Geologists, but many do say.
    And the Quran says in 21:31, in 31:10, as well as in 16:15, that…‘we have made the mountains standing firm on the Earth, lest it would shake with them and with you.
    So in above verses Quran does not referring to the rotation of the earth. It is referring to earth crust, which we live on.
    And if you have any other misconception about Quran or Islam you can ask freely.
    I am always here to answer.
     
  15. Ali Ansari

    Ali Ansari Member

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    You mean to say that God have to reveal another book to explain it. Ok I agree with you.
    But do you know God has already done it 1400 years ago, when He revealed the Quran to Muhammad (pbuh). You read it and you will get all the explanations you want.
     
  16. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    I don't see that this has answered the contradiction.

    You say the surface of the earth is what is being referred to in the passage when it says that the Earth is made firm. But plate tectonics show that this is false. The surface of the earth is made up of massive plates of rock that float above the lower layers of the Earth. They are constantly moving, much as a sheet of cork will float on water. I'd hardly call it firm, especially as the plates rub against each other and cause Earthquakes. San Francisco was practically destroyed in 1906 by an earthquake - proof that the surface of the earth is not firm! They only way that the surface of the Earth could be considered firm is in the sense that it is made up of a solid material - ie, rock. But people hardly need a god to tell them that.

    Also, you say that the existance of mountains adds stability to the Earth's surface. I've never heard this - the earth was getting along just fine for billions of years without the rockys or the Himalayas. Can you support this claim?
     
  17. Green Kepi

    Green Kepi Active Member

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    Ali...I have read it & also studied it with many of your like faith in Turkey and Eqypt (we never agreed, but did so as close to still being friends as we could be). I understand God never saying that He gave us all information. He did not do that in your Quran either. In my Bible, John 20: 30-31, it even tells me that many things were not written about Jesus. The same applies to the rest of the writings.

    There is also much you do not know about Mohammed. I can say he did good when he opposed idolatry and announced plans to overthrow the idols of Mecca in 622. However, the problem that you and I have is that I believe the Bible and Quran stand contrary to each other.
     
  18. Ali Ansari

    Ali Ansari Member

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    you never heard? But this is not my fault. Ok I will give you the reference
    There is a book by the title 'The Earth' which is a very famous book - an authority in the field of Geology, which is referred by most of the universities throughout the world, in this subject. One of Its is authors, name is Frank Press, and he gives the illustration of the mountain in this book called 'Earth', as wedge shaped, and he says… ‘the function of the mountain is to stabilize the Earth's Crust’
    So the Quran rightly said in Surah Nahl, Ch. No. 16, Verse No 15, that… ‘We have set on the earth mountains standing firm lest it would shake.
    Now you are saying that this earth is not firm at all.
    ok for the sake of argument I agree that the earth is not firm enough but do you know Allah does not make this world perfect. Even you and I as an humans we are not perfect enough. human beings have many weakness. Why? Because this life is the test for the hereafter. The eternal and perfect world will be in hereafter.
    Quran says
    “Do people imagine that they will be left to say, ‘we believe’ and we will not be tested? We tested those before them so that Allah would know the truthful and would know the liars (Surat al-Ankabut: 2-3)
    “as to these they love the fleeting life, and put away behind them a day (that will be) hard. (Surat al – Insan: 27)
     
  19. Ali Ansari

    Ali Ansari Member

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    That is good.
    Yes of course.
    Allah gives us all Information, which we needed in the Quran. For example. There are many books in the world claiming to be words of God. Now how can we say for sure that which Book is really the word of God? here Quran give the solution. The test, which can only be passed by the Book, which is really the word of God.
    Quran says.
    "If this (Quran) were from other than Allah, you would find within it many contradictions."
    It mean any book claiming to be word of God it should not have contradictions.
    Now the reality is that all the books that are claiming to be words of God except Quran have many contradictions.
    Similarly in the past many people claimed divinity. Now how can we disprove them?
    Quran has the answer. It says
    "Say: 'He is Allah, the One and Only;
    Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
    He begets not, nor is He begotten'"
    [Al-Quran 112:1-3]
    If we put all of them in to this test the only one who can pass this test is Allah (true God).
     
  20. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

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    I can't see how this is always true, considering that several major mountain ranges in the world are a result of two continental plates colliding - where the crust is least stable.

    Why does Allah need the test? Doesn't he already know?

    The Quran does have internal contradictions.

    So does Allah forgive or not? I did not include these to take this thread off topic, merely to show that the Quran does have internal contradictions.
     
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