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Creation - Evolution Continuum

Mr Spinkles

Mr Spinkles

Mr
inca-- perhaps you were referring to the laws of entropy? One of the laws of chemistry we learned this year was that the entropy (or "disorder") of the universe always has a net increase with every reaction.

But this still doesn't work against evolution. It is also known that order can be created while ultimately the net disorder still increases.

So for example, if you have a bunch of small balls and a few large balls bouncing around a two-dimensional space, the disorder of the small balls will cluster the larger balls into one corner. The entropy of the system has increased in this way (because the small balls have more room for more randomness) but some order has been created (in the large balls clumped together).

So even if you were talking about entropy, it still doesn't disagree with evolution. Some order can be created as long as the net change in entropy is still positive.
 
painted wolf

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Inca

I have heard about the mexican wolf boys... they are the result of a rare genetic disorder... the mutant ressive gene is passed on by the mothers.

Danny and Larry Aceves are accomplished acrobats and are terrific spokesmen for thier condition... the elder brother Danny (I beleive) recently had a child of his own (2003?)who was born perfectly normal.

don't let their silky hair fool you, they have nothing more in common with 'ape men' than any other modern human.

wa:-do
 
I

inca

Active Member
Communicatin breakdown with Mr. Anecdotic...Uhura says all frequences are jammed with him forever....
Mr. Spinkles, you're right, "some" order out of chaos can be expected. In fact I wrote about that in other issue about the Hebrew "beginning". Unfortunately evolution requires more than that due to the complexity of the living things. But at least you know is not enough setting an example of a bunch of balls. Evolutionists -who are defenders of "science"- have to prove the law of entropy applies wherever there's life. They are far from knowing this because even that science is not fully understood. Much less to "prove" it in evolution which is not a science!
Painted Wolf: Your post says <<don't let their silky hair fool you, they have nothing more in common with 'ape men' than any other modern human>> Glad you posted that. I set that exactly BECAUSE THE HAIRY THING OR APPEARANCE DOESN'T FOOL ME. They are not ape man or hominids. They never were. So my message to the readers is: DON'T LET NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC OR BBC FOOL YOU EITHER WHEN THEY HIRED ARTISTS AND IMAGINE SEVERAL "HAIRY" VERSIONS OF APE MEN (taken our of miserable fragments of incomplete bones) in order to deceive the public in their subconsciousness, setting images that step by step, little by little "transform" into an ordinary commom modern man. Every single book and magazine discussing evolution uses the same trick.
 
I

inca

Active Member
In the case of the hairy Mexican people, there's an alteration (probably the gene CGH) in the region of X chromosome which can also produce dental anomalies and deafness. Experimental MANIPULATIONS such as grafting embryonic tissues between embryos of DIFFERENT SPECIES and production of transgenic animals could reveal similar anomalies.
 
I

inca

Active Member
Mr. True Blood have been buttering up Mr. Q lacking anything to add to the issue. Poor stuff! So, I ask him about his posting:
<<I would guess roughly 11 meters per second, or 24 miles an hour.
Great stuff Q>>
So what? In what way African swallow speed proves evolution?
 
I

inca

Active Member
As you can see Allan Harvey does not approve all Creationists statements and he even corrects them but neither he stablishes an apology of evolution. Since the man is open and welcomes an eventual constructive criticism on his document, you-know-who may want to write him a personal letter to disagree with him in scientific terms (HA-HA-HA!) to National Institute of Standars and Technology in Boulder, Colorado.
 
I

inca

Active Member
I tell you more, if you can't contact him to his e-mail:
[email protected]
You can try writing to him to 325 Broadway, Boulder CO 80305, adressed to National Institute of Standars and Technology and ask him personally if evolution is demonstrated or proved by some law. Who knows maybe you can learn something....
 
I

inca

Active Member
So, there a fistful of people here who are ready to critize BUT THEY DON'T READ. I quoted some posts and let the reader make his (her) own judgment of the information. I have said I'm not a Creationist though I believe in creation. But the Creatonists have mistakes. The guy here is explaining very clearly that only in isolated systems entropy must increase though the 2nd Law always applies and that is ridiculous to think God's intervention (outside from Thermodynamics) would always violate the 2nd Law of people increasing the number of people on Earth. It's wrong the Creationists argument that "evil" or "ungodly disorder" has to be associated with entropy. That's why I said I have discussed the issue before in this forum. And I said also evolutionists need to demonstrate evolution. Saying the flaws of some Creationists doesn't mean Evolutionists are right. Both have big mistakes. In fact I have said what the Bible usually describes as "god" was a messanger (angel) or an entity. The coming of eventual plural "gods" makes unnecessary God's intervention to break His own law. I have said even more, that the very Hebrew words from the Bible indicate the Creation started with chaotic entropy and eventually ending in the "order". That's so because the Hebrew word for "afternoon" (the "days" of creation started in the afternoon and finished in the morning) which is EREV means also "confused, disordered, mixtured" while "morning" BOKER means "distinguished, capable to be seen, ordered". In fact, the Genesis account in original Hebrew and not modern translations used by Creationists, indicate there was God's Big Crunch (tsim tsum) even before the universe's Big Bang. I even posted what I wrote in physics forum but I guess people prefer to jump rather than reading.
 
I

inca

Active Member
OPS! So, excuse ME for misunderstanding!
About this thing about entropy I recomend the book "Genesis and the Big Bang" by physicist and theologist Gerald L. Schroeder formed by Massachusetts Institute of Technology who used to dwell in Jerusalem and travel abroad through all the world as a speecher and consultant. His research was given all international attention in Newsweek and Jerusalem Post and innumerous academic publications. He's not an unknown Mr who Q writing in bitter subjectivity. The subject in particular was discussed in chapter 6 "order out of chaos".
 
I

inca

Active Member
Now after reading this, you can get back and read again the arguments presented just to compare:
www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-040.htm
www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-219.htm
You'll see that other experts in the field still debate what is open or closed system and how does the law operates or to what degree. Hence, the answer is evoltion is not demonstrated at all. The only thing we can say that probably it COULD work. Yet what's Mr. Harvey's mistake? He disconsiders the mathematical odds against the things we could observe in nature and what we have never seen. If you pay attention to this you disregard the evolution idea coming by a series of happy events.
Also you can read in Psalms 102:26 the idea presented is not against entropy. It's a better metaphora than the one used by Harvey about "coins" because it's specific and I already quoted other texts about spherical Earth or hanging on "nothing" in the Bible.
 
I

inca

Active Member
When I say "it could work", obviously is in reference to the context of what we're discussing now, which is "entropy". Evolution doesn't work with mutations, there's no "gap" in fossils whose parts are complete. If you forgot you can re-read again all previous pages from the start.
 
Q

(Q)

Active Member
When I say "it could work", obviously is in reference to the context of what we're discussing now, which is "entropy". Evolution doesn't work with mutations, there's no "gap" in fossils whose parts are complete. If you forgot you can re-read again all previous pages from the start.

Why bother re-reading? You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. Your sources are others who have absolutely no idea what they’re talking about or are anecdotal.

And unless you’ve spent your life in a cave, you’ll find that those tired entropy arguments against evolution have been refuted.

It’s very annoying when people like you try to refute that which they don’t understand.
 
painted wolf

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Inca

if the hairyness of the nat. geo. pictures were the only thing that made us different from other hominids then I would agree...
however thier are other significant differences between us and other hominid species wich is why they are classed as thier own species to begin with.

extreme thickening of the brow ridges above the eye sockets.
ressisive chins and other aspects of jaw structure
skull capacity far outside the human spectrum
limb structure on both the legs and arms
wrist and hand structure
ankle and foot structure
hip structure

ps... have you ever considered that the word for afternoon means confused/disordered because humans have terrible night vision and when it gets dark they get confused? And the word for morining means ordered because that is when the world returns to being something that we can see and understand? Nothing more elaboate needed.

language is usually pretty straitforward... much like the pictures of the snakes wrestling.

wa:-do
 
I

inca

Active Member
Q: Checkov says communication is imposible with a retarded Klingon and Uhura repeats the frequences are jammed with you! Keep on yelling!
Painted Wolf: It seems you're saying the same thing as I say. Apes are different than man not because of hair but because of many other reasons. Indeed the very consciousness of our specie make us very different. So, what you say is not backing up evolution. Therefore to believe we are descents from hominds would require more than evolution entities well versed in genetic engineering. Probably cos of that Darwin begged the readers at least 7 times in his "Origin of Species" to ingore the fossil record if they want to understand his theory!
 
I

inca

Active Member
Can somebody suggest the All-Understanding Mr. "Qute" to read The Anthropic Cosmological Principle by scientists Barrow and Tapler? Don't tell me, I know, they are like the rest of the sites, books and authors, nobody understands nothing but Mr. very very decrepit Q's brain, right?
R U talkin' 2 Me? (please, imagine Bob De Niro's gesture in Taxi Driver).
Meanwhile for the rest of readers, it's good to remember prior to 1965 discovery of Big Bang's "echo", 2/3 of the scientists thought Aristoteles & Plato were right and there was no beginning of the Universe. The initial "time" of the universe was considered a fairy tale. Yet the Midrash (Vaikrá Rabá 29:1) was describing in 31 phrases there was the initial beginning of space and time, that was written 1500 years ago and it's not a modern adapted and convenient argument. And as I said before the "entropy"and chaotic circumstances were already written in the Bible. Painted Wolf, the Hebrew meaning is specific and I'm not just using my preference of interpretation. You're just playing games with something you just don't know. You're just improvising something out of your mind lacking the knowledge of Hebrew. The Hebrew word has nothing to do with "visual confusing at night" but disorder, mingled and confused in the afternoon, not evening or night. Now if you wanna learn more about the meaning of "day" and more details in Hebrew language that really needs a different topic. I'd have to say to read Onkelos interpretation of the Jewsih texts 1800 years ago or Maimônides, The Guide for the Perplexed or Namânides's Commentary on the Torah. Please, don't dissapoint us and use whatever it comes to your mind like ourrr dierrr frrriend, precioussssss Q! You sure are smarter than him.
 
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