Creating Awareness

[idav]

Is awareness too ineffable that it cannot be created and must come from nature? It can't be manufactured?

Or is it that awareness works in a way that anything manufactured would be using it, that awareness is fundamental?

I think either it can be manufactured or it doesn't have to be cause its fundamental.

Did nature produce something so ineffable that it can't be replicated outside of life?

Is it that we need to be able to create a soul, are the objections for being able to create awareness stemming from religious reasons.

 

[idav]

Of course the shere complexity of the brain certainly is the issue in creating something to the level of our awareness.

 

[`mud]

Up front;
I would have to say that the 'process' would have to be dependent on our senses to received stimuli.
~
'mud

 

[George-ananda]

Up front;
I would have to say that the 'process' would have to be dependent on our senses to received stimuli.
~
'mud

But to stimulate 'what?' is the hard question of consciousness?

 

[George-ananda]

Is awareness too ineffable that it cannot be created and must come from nature? It can't be manufactured?

Or is it that awareness works in a way that anything manufactured would be using it, that awareness is fundamental?

I think either it can be manufactured or it doesn't have to be cause its fundamental.

Did nature produce something so ineffable that it can't be replicated outside of life?

Is it that we need to be able to create a soul, are the objections for being able to create awareness stemming from religious reasons.

I have come to believe that consciousness/awareness is fundamental and not created and always existed. In fact, all the physical is really just the play/drama of the fundamental consciousness. The movement of atoms and electrons can never create awareness. Fundamental consciousness must incarnate a physical body to give it awareness.

Artificial awareness can not be manufactured by man.

 

[idav]

I have come to believe that consciousness/awareness is fundamental and not created and always existed. In fact, all the physical is really just the play/drama of the fundamental consciousness. The movement of atoms and electrons can never create awareness. Fundamental consciousness must incarnate a physical body to give it awareness.

Artificial awareness can not be manufactured by man.

If awareness is fundamental then there is nothing to manufacture. Therefore anything we create that "mimics" awareness would actually just be aware due to the nature of reality and physics.

 

[George-ananda]

If awareness is fundamental then there is nothing to manufacture.

Not fully sure what you mean. The play of the universe is the infinite fundamental experiencing through limited bodies.

Therefore anything we create that "mimics" awareness would actually just be aware due to the nature of reality and physics.

I'm not clear what you mean here but I think I disagree. Anything we create that mimics awareness has no true awareness is what I am saying. It would just be a collection of moving parts with no capacity to experience the big picture as a single entity.

 

[idav]

Not fully sure what you mean. The play of the universe is the infinite fundamental experiencing through limited bodies.

I'm not clear what you mean here but I think I disagree. Anything we create that mimics awareness has no true awareness is what I am saying. It would just be a collection of moving parts with no capacity to experience the big picture as a single entity.

What I am saying is I don't understand your objection to us being able to simulate awareness when you say that awareness is fundamental.

You describe a "collection of moving parts" but it wouldn't just be that if awareness is a fundamental aspect of reality, you say it always existed. These moving parts wouldn't be "aware" parts to begin with?

That is what I mean there would be anything to manufacture, it would just be utilizing what already exists in nature ie. fundamental awareness.

 

[George-ananda]

What I am saying is I don't understand your objection to us being able to simulate awareness when you say that awareness is fundamental.

Because we can not create what is 'fundamental'. Matter is a derivative of the fundamental.

You describe a "collection of moving parts" but it wouldn't just be that if awareness is a fundamental aspect of reality, you say it always existed. These moving parts wouldn't be "aware" parts to begin with?

Human awareness requires more than physical matter. There are astral, mental, causal levels animated by the fundamental Brahman for consciousness/awareness to occur. This does not happen in a purely physical creation. I am arguing for a top-down approach. It starts with Brahman and progressively denser layer are formed. You are looking at it as bottom-up. In your view, you create the physical complexity and somehow awareness is created.

That is what I mean there would be anything to manufacture, it would just be utilizing what already exists in nature ie. fundamental awareness.

So does a stone have awareness? Good question, but it is such an inert dull awareness that we don't really consider that awareness. Now, the most sophisticated computer I am saying would have no more awareness than the stone. If you break down stones and silicon and arrange them differently into a computer no awareness is added. A stone pile is no more aware than its constituent stones.

 

[idav]

Because we can not create what is 'fundamental'. Matter is a derivative of the fundamental.

Ok but going by your premise we should be able to mimic awareness.

Human awareness requires more than physical matter. There are astral, mental, causal levels animated by the fundamental Brahman for consciousness/awareness to occur. This does not happen in a purely physical creation. I am arguing for a top-down approach. It starts with Brahman and progressively denser layer are formed. You are looking at it as bottom-up. In your view, you create the physical complexity and somehow awareness is created.

No I look at it from both directions. I am trying to see why precisely a fundamental awareness wouldn't lead to exactly being able to build aware machines. Nature was able to do it by accident, took a billion years but it did it because it already exists. And nature can do this by accident but humans couldn't do that on purpose? I know reality is crazy but we are peering into the rabbit hole.

So does a stone have awareness? Good question, but it is such an inert dull awareness that we don't really consider that awareness. Now, the most sophisticated computer I am saying would have no more awareness than the stone. If you break down stones and silicon and arrange them differently into a computer no awareness is added. A stone pile is no more aware than its constituent stones.

Now lets not start talking silly as if I think a pile of stones is doing anything.

Ah, yes you mention astral levels. I'm pretty sure with QM we are tapping into other levels of reality already, whatever you want to call them.[/QUOTE]

 

[George-ananda]

Nature was able to do it by accident, took a billion years but it did it because it already exists. And nature can do this by accident but humans couldn't do that on purpose?

Ahh, this thinking clarifies the difference between our views. I do not believe life and awareness are physical only and an accident. I believe awareness has components in realms beyond the physical and the creation of physical forms were crafted and fostered by nature beings/spirits that integrated the physical and non-physical components to fashion physical life. Man-made creations are just physical only and so inanimate and lacking self-awareness and consciousness. Humans have etheric bodies, astral bodies, mental bodies and causal bodies that are required for consciousness.

 

[Sonofason]

Is awareness too ineffable that it cannot be created and must come from nature? It can't be manufactured?

Or is it that awareness works in a way that anything manufactured would be using it, that awareness is fundamental?

I think either it can be manufactured or it doesn't have to be cause its fundamental.

Did nature produce something so ineffable that it can't be replicated outside of life?

Is it that we need to be able to create a soul, are the objections for being able to create awareness stemming from religious reasons.

The following verses suggest that everything has awareness, thus I would suggest that awareness is fundamental to all of God's creation.
"And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen;Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.
And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples. And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out." (Luke 19: 37-40)

 

[idav]

The following verses suggest that everything has awareness, thus I would suggest that awareness is fundamental to all of God's creation.
"And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen;Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.
And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples. And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out." (Luke 19: 37-40)

That's how I interpret it, seems we are in agreement.

 

[idav]

Humans have etheric bodies, astral bodies, mental bodies and causal bodies that are required for consciousness.

All of reality would be that of God, not just conscious beings. Your talkin like humans are made of something different from the rest of the earth.

 

[Sonofason]

That's how I interpret it, seems we are in agreement.

Well, I'm surprised...no one ever agrees with me haha.

 

[George-ananda]

All of reality would be that of God, not just conscious beings. Your talkin like humans are made of something different from the rest of the earth.

Yes, all life from plants to animals to humans are more than physical earth components. That is what separates animate from inanimate objects/ life from non-living things.

 

[Sonofason]

Yes, all life from plants to animals to humans are more than physical earth components. That is what separates animate from inanimate objects/ life from non-living things.

Why stop there? "the rocks would cry out"...that is what Jesus said.

 

[George-ananda]

Why stop there? "the rocks would cry out"...that is what Jesus said.

Never known one to have that level of awareness.

 

[Sonofason]

Never known one to have that level of awareness.

why would they want you to know?

 

[idav]

Yes, all life from plants to animals to humans are more than physical earth components. That is what separates animate from inanimate objects/ life from non-living things.

I think that how life came about through evolution puts a dent in your interpretation. Of course i am not really sure we understand when life began exactly but all of matter is animate even rocks. Life happens to utilize the potential energy that exists in everything.

There is no line to draw of when awareness began from mere chemicals because there was never a point it had to begin. Life got more complex because of the innate ability already within. Otherwise life would not get more complex by mere chance IMO, it wouldn't make much sense. There were recent tests where single cell organisms are able to learn to harness the good and avoid the bad, on purpose not just cause of chance chemical reactions. My take is the planet was alive before we like to give credit for.