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Featured COVID-19: God's Punishment for Homosexuality?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by The Hammer, Apr 7, 2020.

  1. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    I'm not really worried, with your god's record, I doubt there will be any victory, especially since he's also the god of Israel's enemies and rivals. No matter what, his people will lose. He is such a brilliant leader that half his worshipers are at war with the other half over the last edition of his very special book of him being awesome.
     
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  2. Good-Ole-Rebel

    Good-Ole-Rebel Well-Known Member

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    Oh it's going to get much worse before it gets better. There are defeats and judgements along the way. But, in the end, God will have His way.

    The Kingdom will return to Israel. The Theocracy established once again. He never loses.

    Good-Ole-Rebel
     
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  3. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    If you worship such a horrendous god then your concept of morality is disgustingly warped. Perhaps if you stopped letting an old book do your reasoning for you instead of thinking for yourself that might change. As for me I do not and will NEVER worship much a morally repugnant being. So much for the veracity of your 'bible'.
     
  4. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    Sorry,but I find that to be a truly SICK concept. Let's claim that newborn infants are 'beyond reform'so that I can try and justify God drowning them. Let's pretend that it's 'moral' to punish a minor child for the crimes that their parents committed. Let's claim that it was 'righteous' for the German's to kill innocent Italians for crimes they had no involvement in. No wonder humans do such horrible things to one another when they have a holy book like your bible to justify it all.
     
  5. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Huh ?
    Where did God promise to kill any of Adam and Eve's pets ____________
    I find there was No threat at Genesis 2:17.
    The Law was clearly stated that if you break the Law you will die.

    Every government has laws, and the breaking of the laws have consequences.
    Including capital punishment for the breaking of some laws.
    People can find out which laws carry the death penalty.
    In Eden the Law was clear about breaking the Law.
     
  6. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Yipes, I find Ezekiel 18:20 is clear: the son shall Not bear the iniquity of the father and vice versa.
    Please compare that with Deuteronomy 24:16 and 2 Chronicles 25:4 B.
    So, No there is No Holy Book (Bible) that teaches such horrible German things to kill innocent Italians, etc.
    People (Not God) were abusing their children according to Jeremiah 32:35 ( guess you won't read that ? )

    What horrible things do you find taught in the 19th chapter of Leviticus, such as the Golden Rule at verse 18____

    The parents in Noah's day were beyond reform, beyond repenting, they filled their lives with violence.
    Their children would have grown up violent as the parents were. If they grew up at the hands of their parents.
    By bringing an end to that violent world spared the righteous from suffering from the wicked.
    It is the wicked who will be 'destroyed forever' - Psalms 92:7
     
  7. Good-Ole-Rebel

    Good-Ole-Rebel Well-Known Member

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    Well, that is not going to change. Our Book is the Word of God.

    Your morality is yours. Not God's. You can feel good about it all you like. It is God's opinion that will count.

    Good-Ole-Rebel
     
  8. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I noticed that obvious contradiction too. It says that children shouldn't bear the inequities of their parents behavior, and then God goes and forces the innocent children in Noah's day to bear the inequities of their parents behavior. Makes you wonder who's writing this stuff.

    And if these children would have all grown up to be a bad as their parents if they'd been left to be raised by their parents, why didn't god just kill off all the bad parents and then raise the children properly?

    As for god using German WWII tactics, it seems he had an affinity for them. Take the whole thing with Pharaoh in Egypt. Here we have a tyrannical leader whose heart has been hardened by God against Him, who defies God. But instead of punishing the one who defied him, God decides to kill the first born son of every single parent in Egypt, parents who had absolutely no control over what Pharaoh would or would not do. Punishing people who suffer under the rule of a tyrant for the actions of that tyrant is even worse than killing civilians for the acts that rebels preform.
     
    #108 QuestioningMind, Apr 8, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
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  9. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    Thus it's not a free choice. How is "do as I say or die" a choice? Next what, have sex with me or I'll slit your throat becomes consensual relationship between two adults?

    Laws aren't choices. They are obligations, unless those laws have been voted on which is not the case for these ones.
     
  10. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    No one is forced to follow Jesus ( the 'Law of Christ' - Galatians 6:2 )
    This law applies to all Christians wherever on Earth they live.
    Jesus set up a new ' kingdom covenant ' with his followers - Luke 22:29-30
    Yes, laws are obligations, such as Jesus' New commandment for his followers found at John 13:34-35.
    Who does anyone know that God has interfered with one's actions ___________

    Even secular laws have capital punishment for some crimes for the sake of justice for the righteous.
    The violent people of Noah's day were beyond reform, beyond repenting.
    Those violent people were probably violent toward their own children.
    Those children would have grown up ( if they grew up ) as violent as their parents.

    Noah & company warned those violent people, but the people refused to listen.
    No parent even put their children on the Ark to be saved.
    If there would Not have been divine involvement there would Not have been anyone righteous on Earth.
    So, for the 'sake of justice for the righteous' is why God acted.
     
  11. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I think you know there was 9 previous plagues before the 10th or last plague.
    ( Remember the first born could have been age 30 or older and Not a minor)
    Pharaoh hardened his own heart - Exodus 8:15; Exodus 8:32
    So, it was the circumstance that brought about Pharaoh hardening his own heart.
    Because God 'allowed' Pharaoh to harden his own heart is why (He gave Pharaoh enough rope....., so to speak )
    in 'Bible speak' it can be said God hardened the heart of Pharaoh because God allowed it.
    As for the parents, many Egyptians went along with Pharaoh according to 1 Samuel 6:6.

    Once the violent-world parents of Noah's day were executed, then who would raise their children____________
    Parents are responsible for minor children. No parent even put one child on the Ark to be saved !

    It wasn't God who used WWII tactics but rather Hitler who used the willing corrupted clergymen -
    Nazi photos showing Christian influence
     
  12. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
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    **THREAD MOVED TO GENERAL RELIGIOUS DEBATES**
     
  13. Left Coast

    Left Coast Peanut Butter Enthusiast
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    ***RULE 8 REMINDER***

    Preaching and/or proselytizing are not permitted here at Religious Forums. Violations of this policy are subject to moderation.

    The text of Rule 8 is posted for your reference below:

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  14. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    I think you know there was 9 previous plagues before the 10th or last plague

    Wow, you say that as if you think it's a GOOD thing. Yeah, I do know that instead of just punishing Pharaoh for Pharaoh's disobedience, God decided the punish the poor souls who were unfortunate enough to have been born under Pharaoh's tyrannical rule. He did this NINE TIMES before he decided to kill every single first born child in the nation.

    Remember the first born could have been age 30 or older and Not a minor
    Yeah... SOME were as old at 30... perhaps a 30 year old who is just struggling to eke out survival under the rule of an evil tyrant. OR maybe just a tiny newborn infant. God doesn't seem to care who's guilty and who's innocent, because these people are mere disposable pawns in his conflict with Pharaoh.

    As for the parents, many Egyptians went along with Pharaoh according to 1 Samuel 6:6

    Right, so if a parent does something wrong it's perfectly okay the punish their children for the parent's wrong act. But wait... I thought God said that should NOT happen? So what does a parent supporting Pharaoh have to do with it being perfectly okay to snuff out the life of their newborn child? Dang, it's just one contradiction after another in your book, isn't it?

    That's like the German officer who just rounded up the children of 1000 Italian citizens and shot them saying afterwards: But MANY of the parents of those dead children probably support the resistance, so that makes my actions perfectly okay.

    Once the violent-world parents of Noah's day were executed, then who would raise their children?

    Let's see... If I were a all-powerful god being capable of doing absolutely anything who genuinely loved these children I think I might just RAISE THEM MYSELF. Perhaps then they might have a chance of being raised properly. But not the god of the bible. Apparently this god thought it would just be a whole lot easier to slaughter them all.

    Even fallible human beings behave in a more moral fashion that that. If the state determines that a couple has done something worthy of execution, the state does NOT go ahead and kill their newborn child as well, just because there would be no one to raise it. The state takes on the responsibility of caring for and raising the child in a proper manner.
     
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  15. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    Sadly you're probably right, it's not going to change. There will always be people like you who have no moral center who are willing to follow and even worship anyone who claims to have moral authority. Ethically challenged individuals have been following and worshiping evil tyrants since the beginning.
     
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  16. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion, this is an refinement of the moral axiom "might makes right". It's basically people who prefer and value power over reason on the not incorrect notion that anybody with power can impose their views, but people with reason cannot.
     
  17. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    I think you hit the nail right on the head.
     
  18. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    If they don't they die or are otherwise punished. That's not a choice that's an obligation. Divine laws aren't choices you can make. They are obligations. Don't tell me your deity wanted people to be free and chose him of their own accord if he condamn and threaten to death, pain or oblivion those who do not.

    Actually no, most secular law system no longer have a death penalty and for secular laws that still have a death penalty. It's reserved only for people guilty of premeditated murder, the gravest form of murder. Are you arguing that everybody killed someone with premeditation in your myth? That's mathematically impossible.

    Even then, the law isn't a choice, it's a command.

    And yet your God's law authorise and even praises violent punishment against children. It can even go to execution in the more extreme cases of disobediance. It's a command to honor your parent and any breach of command has for punishment death.

    If your God truly wanted righteous people, he would have made them righteous.
     
  19. Good-Ole-Rebel

    Good-Ole-Rebel Well-Known Member

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    Wrong again. Your 'moral center' is yours. I don't walk by it.

    As a Christian I follow the God of the Bible and Jesus Christ. Not 'anyone' who has some supposed 'moral authority'.

    Good-Ole-Rebel
     
  20. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I KNOW that you don't have a moral center that you walk by. You've made that VERY clear. Instead you've chosen to abdicate your moral center in favor of following words in a book written by fallible humans beings claiming to speak for the moral authority of a god being. People have been abdicating such moral authority to wicked tyrants since the beginning of time and sadly you are evidence that people will continue to do so into the future. As long as that's the case people like you will continue to try and defend punishing innocent people for acts they didn't commit as being a 'moral action', simply because the authority that you've abdicated your moral center to tells you it's so.

    It makes you wonder if there's any real hope for our race.
     
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