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Covid-19 + Brexit = ?

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
As a non-Londoner, I can assure you that the rest of the country is also not having a holiday.
As a USonian, I can assure you that most people around here don't consider being off work a holiday.
Maybe the Trump administration will help them out a bit. But he's pretty good at lying.

Everyone knows that.
Tom
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
Frank Sidebottom, the bard of Timperley, is taking it seriously.

90790684_10156753313890723_8684053045035663360_o.jpg
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Are, or are not, those ministers elected MPs?

As is Boris
Yes indeed. However, as government ministers, they spend their day at their Department, attending to its operation and getting it to implement government policy. They pop down to Parliament when there is a debate on, or a vote that requires their presence, or if questions are being asked - in the House or in a parliamentary committee - about the conduct of government policy in their area.

The fact Parliament is not sitting therefore simply allows them to get on with their work of government and leave the business of reporting back to Parliament till later, when it returns. It does not mean they all go on holiday!
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Yes indeed. However, as government ministers, they spend their day at their Department, attending to its operation and getting it to implement government policy. They pop down to Parliament when there is a debate on, or a vote that requires their presence, or if questions are being asked - in the House or in a parliamentary committee - about the conduct of government policy in their area.

The fact Parliament is not sitting therefore simply allows them to get on with their work of government and leave the business of reporting back to Parliament till later, when it returns. It does not mean they all go on holiday!

So you are saying that they are not all jetting off to their villas in Tuscany and Costa del sol?

Oh right, there is lock down.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Yes indeed. However, as government ministers, they spend their day at their Department, attending to its operation and getting it to implement government policy. They pop down to Parliament when there is a debate on, or a vote that requires their presence, or if questions are being asked - in the House or in a parliamentary committee - about the conduct of government policy in their area.

The fact Parliament is not sitting therefore simply allows them to get on with their work of government and leave the business of reporting back to Parliament till later, when it returns. It does not mean they all go on holiday!

Is that what they do? I would never have guessed when i see all those empty seats on TV

So you are saying that they are not all jetting off to their villas in Tuscany and Costa del sol?

Oh right, there is lock down.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
So you are saying that they are not all jetting off to their villas in Tuscany and Costa del sol?

Oh right, there is lock down.
For a start you realise there are no planes? The airports are shut.

Seriously, government ministers will be working bloody hard right now, that is for sure. This is almost a war.

As for all the other MPs, I would guess they will get on with their constituency work, which is in fact quite a large part of the duties of a normal MP. Some, no doubt, are lazy and won't do much. But, just as schoolteachers are not all just lazing about throughout the school holidays, MPs have other duties they must attend to when Parliament is not sitting.

My guess would be that a lot of this constituency work right now will be dealing with people out of a job, or a home, or businesses and projects disrupted, due to the ramifications of the shutdown. I imagine their Inboxes will be bursting with questions, demands and hard luck stories.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
For a start you realise there are no planes? The airports are shut.

Seriously, government ministers will be working bloody hard right now, that is for sure. This is almost a war.

As for all the other MPs, I would guess they will get on with their constituency work, which is in fact quite a large part of the duties of a normal MP. Some, no doubt, are lazy and won't do much. But, just as schoolteachers are not all just lazing about throughout the school holidays, MPs have other duties they must attend to when Parliament is not sitting.

My guess would be that a lot of this constituency work right now will be dealing with people out of a job, or a home, or businesses and projects disrupted, due to the ramifications of the shutdown. I imagine their Inboxes will be bursting with questions, demands and hard luck stories.


Far a start, have you never heard of sarcasm?

Working hard? So they are going to try something new?

And still parliament has gone on holiday, as i said at post #3, can you argue with that fact?
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Far a start, have you never heard of sarcasm?

Working hard? So they are going to try something new?

And still parliament has gone on holiday, as i said at post #3, can you argue with that fact?
I have spent the last 6 posts explaining to you nobody is having a "holiday" out of all this mess, least of all government ministers and not many MPs, if any, either. I have even explained to you what it is they will all be doing.

Parliament is not sitting, that is all. It has been shut down, like most business in the capital.

It is not a "fact", at all, that it has "gone on holiday".
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I have spent the last 6 posts explaining to you nobody is having a "holiday" out of all this mess, least of all government ministers and not many MPs, if any, either. I have even explained to you what it is they will all be doing.

Parliament is not sitting, that is all. It has been shut down, like most business in the capital.

It is not a "fact", at all, that it has "gone on holiday".


I said parliament.

House of Commons recess dates

You spent the last 6 posts giving your opinion, that is not my problem
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I certainly don't want to see any politician dealing with any non-essential activities until the current situation has been resolved.

Something as complex as Brexit should be put on ice just like the Olympics and Euro Championships have: Come back in a year and hopefully things will be alright then.

In general though, hopefully the lesson of Cornavirus will be that our excessively interconnected world is very fragile, and countries need to become more self-reliant. Even within countries, localist economies should be encouraged as much as possible.

This doesn't mean isolationism or autarky of course, but being overly reliant on other countries in times of crisis leaves you very vulnerable.

The modern world is hyper-optimised due to industries becoming condensed into a small number of major players creating systems with minimal in-built redundancy. These are 'optimised' for maximum efficiency which relies on unbroken supply chains that operate under the implicit assumption that the system itself is robust, which of course it is not.

In that sense, whenever it eventually does happen, Brexit is an opportunity for an increased focus on localism, although I am in no way confident that this will actually be the end result as I don't trust the politicians to have any degree of sense.

I don't see this situation as evidence that increasing both scale and centralisation is something we should be thankful for though, very much the opposite.

I get what you are saying and understand your POV. However, I also think it is utopian thinking that any country in this day and age actually can be self-reliant. You can't. No country can do it all "by itself". At least, not if we aren't prepared to propel ourselves back 50 years in terms of welfare and luxury.

Moreoever, if a handfull of countries do this while the rest of the world moves forward in globalisation and centralisation, the only thing those countries will really accomplish is setting themselves hopelessly behind the rest of the world.

Also, in terms of this crisis, it's not globalization that is the problem. It's travel. Not the movement of goods, but the movement of people.

The virus didn't come into Europe from China in a box of micro-chips. No, it came into Europe through a person who got infected in China and then traveled to Europe and it spread from there.

If there were no travel between china and the rest of the world, the virus would have never left china.
Technically it can survive on goods and infect people that way also, but goods are easily desinfected.

So the way I see it, it's not interenational business that spread the virus. It's international travel.
In fact, I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of the spread has been done by tourists.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
In my view negotiations need to be conservative in pace and toned down lest events render any deal impossible for any party involved. Yes it is an easy "told you so" moment. However a bad deal at time like this foolish.

Just to clarify, my OP wasn't at all meant as an "told you so" message...

While I think the britts absolutely made a mistake in leaving the EU, I think it's counterproductive to continue yapping about it. It's done and it is what it is, so one can only move forward in the best way possible.

It just amazes me how amidst the biggest crisis this generation has ever faced, hardline brexiteers feel the need to pump their chest while yelling THERE WILL BE NO POSTPONING! Which is what triggered me into creating this thread.

I can't imagine how anybody wouldn't realise that the best way to move forward in this new reality, is to postpone the deadline. It was already going to be rather... eum... "hard" economically. To push through now, seems to me, to be completely insane!
 
I get what you are saying and understand your POV. However, I also think it is utopian thinking that any country in this day and age actually can be self-reliant. You can't. No country can do it all "by itself". At least, not if we aren't prepared to propel ourselves back 50 years in terms of welfare and luxury.

I know that autarky is unrealistic, and also unnecessary, but that is the extreme end of the spectrum.

Many countries import 50%+ of their food though, which is not a good place to be in times of crisis. It works fine 99.99% of the time, but if the **** hits the fan you are in trouble.

The problem is people assume the worst case scenario will never happen, and care more about saving a few pennies in the short term, hopefully coronavirus will remind people it can (although hopefully they won't get too stark a reminder).

Moreoever, if a handfull of countries do this while the rest of the world moves forward in globalisation and centralisation, the only thing those countries will really accomplish is setting themselves hopelessly behind the rest of the world.

I didn't propose isolationism or autarky though, and centralisation is not something that is necessary for high standards of living (see Switzerland), and often is a detriment to parts of the system (see Eurozone)

Also, in terms of this crisis, it's not globalization that is the problem. It's travel. Not the movement of goods, but the movement of people.

The 2 are very much interconnected.

So the way I see it, it's not interenational business that spread the virus. It's international travel.
In fact, I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of the spread has been done by tourists.

Anecdotally at least, a lot of the early cases were business trips, every early case in Singapore for example was connected to a single conference.

It's more a general point though, the more interconnected, complex and optimised you make systems, the more fragile they become and the more harmful the consequences of systemic collapse.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
No indeed.

Your problem would appear to be a stubborn and prejudiced ignorance worthy of any dim creationist.:p

Your problem is you would appear NOT to have read my post or deliberately misrepresented it and then launch an ad hominem attack because you cannot wriggle out of it. Creationist tactics don't you think?

Yes, if course i am stubborn when you base your argument on misrepresent
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Just to clarify, my OP wasn't at all meant as an "told you so" message...

I was talking about Boris, Tories and/or Brexit making that point. It is an easy point to make but does not help the situation now.

While I think the britts absolutely made a mistake in leaving the EU, I think it's counterproductive to continue yapping about it. It's done and it is what it is, so one can only move forward in the best way possible.

It just amazes me how amidst the biggest crisis this generation has ever faced, hardline brexiteers feel the need to pump their chest while yelling THERE WILL BE NO POSTPONING! Which is what triggered me into creating this thread.

It is going to happen as it can be a form of vindication even if based on the smallest of points.

I can't imagine how anybody wouldn't realise that the best way to move forward in this new reality, is to postpone the deadline. It was already going to be rather... eum... "hard" economically. To push through now, seems to me, to be completely insane!

Like I said they need to slow down to adjust to the current situation. Economies are in flux right now so previous strengths/weaknesses are not the same as per the outbreak.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I think I wish people would stop confusing British and English.

I think I wish people would stop looking at Brexit as some nutcase alt-right political hemorrhage that's going to crash and burn our country, and instead look in more detail at the reasoning behind it, and why people from all political sides voted for it.

I think I wish we could all just come together and stop squabbling as nations during a worldwide pandemic.

I'm with you on this for sure. The silly squabbling that folks usually engage in is a luxury for better times.
 
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