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Featured Countries banning of kosher meats are forcing "expulsion" of Jews

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by IndigoChild5559, May 16, 2019.

  1. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    What you are basically saying is to do it in such a way that it no longer meets the standards of being kosher.
     
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  2. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Why in the world would you ban minarets???? What a horrible violation of freedom of religion. How medieval!! It has no place in a modern democracy. So much for your ethically advanced country. No wonder you also violate the rights of Jews and Muslims to perform kosher/halal slaughter.
     
  3. The Ragin Pagan

    The Ragin Pagan A.K.A. The Kilted Heathen

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    And what, exactly, makes it "kosher" or not? Why must kosher be unchanging, when there are factually better ways?
     
  4. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Why? Can you imagine minarets in Switzerland? That would be like mixing a Bach or Mozart sonata with the scream of a Muezzin. Who would do that?

    And by the way, freedom of religion is always submitted to secular law. If the two have a conflict, the former loses.

    And if the pious is not happy, he or she is perfectly free to find places spiritually more consonant for him or her.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
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  5. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Prove it. You would need an unimpeded video of kosher slaughter of beef and lambs. When one can see the process it is not painless.
     
  6. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    We obey God whether or not we understand the purpose of the law, first off.

    There has been plenty of speculation as to why kashrut exists. The suggestion that makes most sense to me is that it prevents idolatry in the following way:

    Harry Hebrew of the ancient Israelites is not restricted by kashrut, so he attends a Canaanite wedding where he can feast. At the celebration, he meets a Canaanite woman and they are mutually attracted. To make a long story short, they are married. And lo and behold, he finds a statue of Baal in his home.

    It is the same nowadays. Joe Jew goes for pepperoni pizza. There he meets Cindy Christian. They hit it off, fall in love, and are married. And, not surprisingly, he finds a Christmas tree in his living room.

    Food leads to socialization. Socialization leads to marriage. Marriage leads to sharing of religions.
     
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  7. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Hunting provides an important control on wild animal populations. Over population causes multiple problems. And any decent hunter tries to take down his prey with one shot. I could never understand why one would want a semi-automatic deer rifle.
     
  8. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    Why would what I know make it a strange law? The law is the law regardless of anything else. The police won't know if I run a red light at 3AM (and if I drive with my eyes closed, neither will I). You say something is possible, and I can't disagree. I can only rely on the labeling and care I and others take. If whoever calibrated my speedometer wasn't careful, I might have speeded (sped?) without knowing it. That doesn't change the speed limit.
    OK. I understand it is difficult to comprehend the infinite. I don't think anyone really can. That isn't how we (as Jews) validate or justify our adherence. We assume that the law as given is the law without trying to judge if we think God really thinks it matters.
    Intentionally or not? If intentionally, then I would (if I cared) have to repent and change. If I speed and flout that rule, but I decide I care about law and order I should feel bad, and not do it again. If it was an accident I might try to be more aware, but there is no real consequence. Judaism doesn't say that we have to be able to perceive any difference.
     
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  9. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    That begs all sorts of questions, most of which would not have satisfying answers. Claiming "factually better" ways requires being able to judge the method on a particular scale. But if that isn't the scale to start with then, it will be much more difficult to assert that anything is better.
     
  10. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    Are you one of those people who forces everyone to do stuff your way..? Should hunting be banned too?
     
  11. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    Rosends, I don't know your political leanings, but this is exactly what I hate about the tyrannical progressive left.

    People who pass laws like this are anti-freedom.
     
  12. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    I have no leanings. I am an anarchist hermit. I am alone and don't know who is in charge.
     
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  13. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    Are these the ones who are "unclean" if a gentile touches them.

    Loss of what?
     
  14. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    What is kosher is determined by Jewish law, which is like case law, if an analogy to Western law can be given. You have the original law, which is that there is a particular way to slaughter animals that is pleasing to God, but it is not specified in Torah. Therefore it has to be specified by Oral Torah. Some say that Oral Torah was given by God directly to Moses and that the courts rediscovered it or confirmed it. Others say it was determined by the courts themselves as history went along.

    Let me see if I can remember everything to do with Kashrut:
    1. The animal must be a clean animal: an animal with coven hooves and chews cud (obviously no pork or rabbit), fish that has fins and scales (IOW no shellfish, sorry lobster), and certain birds excluded, mostly birds of prey (basically we eat chicken, duck, goose, and turkey).
    2. It must be sheched properly (kosher slaughter) meaning that it must be conscious at the time of slaughter, and the cutting is done a certain way which ensures quick and relatively pain free death, drained of blood and salted to remove as much remaining blood as possible.
    3. It must be cooked in pans and vats which are not cross contaminated with non-kosher food.
    4. Dairy and Meat must be carefully kept separate.
    5. Separate dishes are used for meat and dairy, as well as separate areas in the refrigerator, sink, etc. So that there is no accidental mixing, even of residue.
    Shortcuts for kosher foods are simply to buy certified kosher meats, and foods with a kosher hechsher (symbol).
     
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  15. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    Huh? I've been an Orthodox Jew for a really long time (longer every day, actually) and have never heard that.
     
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  16. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Active Member

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    Is death by hunting a painless death?
     
  17. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    I can show you a video of the calming that goes on before hand, but no one with a conscience really wants to show innocents the death of an animal.
     
  18. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Not banned yet.
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    Just wait til MGM (circumcision of infants) gets banned.
    Then they'll really be screaming "Anti-semitism!".

    Everyone has to make the decision if their country's laws
    are so unacceptable that they must move. Jews, Muslims,
    Christians, & even we atheists. I faced it too during the draft.
     
    #258 Revoltingest, May 20, 2019
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  19. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    I don't know of any Jews who are unclean if a Gentile touches them. Jewish men regularly shake hands with Gentiles, even in Orthodoxy.

    Loss of a considerable portion of the Jewish community.
     
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  20. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    The problem is that from what I have seen the discomfort of animals that have had their throats cut is obvious. They are in special pens and they still kick and writhe. That is why I asked for a video by those that claim it to be humane.

    When one goes hunting one is limited too. One can't shoot endless amounts of game. One can't use lead shot anywhere that ducks or geese go since they ingest that shot and can get lead poisoning without being shot. The number of shells that shotguns can have is limited so crazies don't fill the sky with pellets and wounded birds. I used to hunt, and probably will not hunt any longer since I would have to learn all over again. But I know that hunting provides a much need purpose now that we have all but eliminated predators. Area in the eastern U.S. where the left has banned hunting at times have serious deer problems. Not just from car accidents caused by deer, but also by overpopulation and the diseases that often go with it.
     
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