Countries banning of kosher meats are forcing "expulsion" of Jews

[Revoltingest]

Right. I seriously doubt that God would get mad at them for decreasing the suffering of the animal.

People will believe what they need to believe about religious slaughter being humane.
But this will take a back seat to changing culture & consequent changes in law.
If their god is reasonable, it would understand the compelling need to obey
laws, & allow traditions to change accordingly. I guarantee no afterlife punishment.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

One's rights and when others are physically affected. Right now some countries are giving animals the "right" of freedom from excessive pain when slaughtered. I asked one poster if I had a religion that demanded I torture a dog before I ate it if that was okay as long as it was my dog? That question was extreme and it was dodged. As to circumcision what is banned is child circumcision. An adult can always undergo the process.

It's a ridiculous question. The real case is nothing at all like your example. Try again.

 

[David1967]

Is there any difference when the rubber meets the road? Looks like you are splitting hairs.

What do you mean? Do you mean the end result that in the end the animal is still dead?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

To see it as anti-semitism is to miss the a larger cultural change which is
increasingly uncomfortable with how animals are treated. We're seeing
movements against eating foie gras, eating veal, raising beef (even eating
any meat), wearing fur, & Islamic butchering too. Arguments about the
most humane way to kill will happen, & some consensus will become law.
The vast majority of people will adapt to it.
I see intent to change practices, not to expel all such practitioners.

The problem is, it is no more unkind to an animal then the knock em and shoot em method. Both methods involve some pain, and a limited amount of time (seconds in the case of kosher slaughter).

 

[David1967]

People will believe what they need to believe about religious slaughter being humane.
But this will take a back seat to changing culture & consequent changes in law.
If their god is reasonable, it would understand the compelling need to obey
laws, & allow traditions to change accordingly. I guarantee no afterlife punishment.

I just don't see an omnipotent being getting upset that someone stunned an animal instead of sawing open its throat while it's completely conscious. But... We're certainly not going to change minds here especially if it's part of a religion.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Point three is wrong. They can go without meat. They can realize that their practice was largely superstitious and eat humanely butchered meat instead. They could limit their meat to poultry. It appears that it is mammals that are stunned before butchering.

In your dreams. People don't just give up their religion when things get rough.

Yes, there are ways of accommodating. I don't live in an area with lots of Jews. It means I can't get kosher meat. I can either make a two hour trip once a month and buy meat, or I can be a vegetarian. I choose to be vegetarian.

Besides, with faux meat, you can add cheese. Nothing like a good faux turkey and swiss.

 

[David1967]

Sure, your a Jew. Sounds like you hate being a Jew. What can I say.

Why would a Jew being against this type of slaughter equate to a person hating being a Jew?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

What do you mean? Do you mean the end result that in the end the animal is still dead?

Hand slap to forehead

 

[David1967]

Is faux bacon ok?

 

[Revoltingest]

The problem is, it is no more unkind to an animal then the knock em and shoot em method. Both methods involve some pain, and a limited amount of time (seconds in the case of kosher slaughter).

I don't know anything other than what I saw in the videos.
The bolt to the head is clearly the faster death.
It would be most reasonable to see that as more humane.
But I don't oppose the less humane approach favored by
Jews & Muslims. So it's not an issue to me.

The OP is about potential legal changes being expulsion.
Religious folk can adapt to change without leaving the country.

 

[David1967]

Hand slap to forehead

Just explain it clearly. I don't know if I agree with you or not.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Why would a Jew being against this type of slaughter equate to a person hating being a Jew?

Look, let's say I was Lakota Sioux. But I left the rez, left the tribe behind. Told people publicly that I didn't give a rat's that I was Lakota. And then I went further than that. I made statements that degraded the religious significance of the Black Hills to the Sioux, such as "I hope they develop the h*** out of those hills. Drill for oil. I hope they carve the face of Custer on those stinking hills." That would be a self hating Lakota.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Is faux bacon ok?

Ohhhh yes.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Just explain it clearly. I don't know if I agree with you or not.

the end result being that the Jews are gone. (at least many of them)

 

[Revoltingest]

The problem is, it is no more unkind to an animal then the knock em and shoot em method. Both methods involve some pain, and a limited amount of time (seconds in the case of kosher slaughter).

We can agree to disagree about that.
But as I said, I don't oppose either method, so it's a non-issue.

Laws are often unreasonable, eg, banning animal fur clothing.
But the law is the law. Why would Jews (& Muslims) have to leave
if butchering laws changed?

 

[Revoltingest]

I just don't see an omnipotent being getting upset that someone stunned an animal instead of sawing open its throat while it's completely conscious. But... We're certainly not going to change minds here especially if it's part of a religion.

Certainly, we won't change any minds here.
But if the law changes, religions will adapt over time.
And what was once unthinkable apostasy or violation
of sacred tradition will become the new tradition.

 

[Woberts]

So you have no problem with Jews being expelled from these countries?

No. They can be barbaric somewhere else.

 

[David1967]

the end result being that the Jews are gone. (at least many of them)

Thank you for clarifying.

 

[David1967]

Look, let's say I was Lakota Sioux. But I left the rez, left the tribe behind. Told people publicly that I didn't give a rat's that I was Lakota. And then I went further than that. I made statements that degraded the religious significance of the Black Hills to the Sioux, such as "I hope they develop the h*** out of those hills. Drill for oil. I hope they carve the face of Custer on those stinking hills." That would be a self hating Lakota.

I see what you mean, but that's a bit more extreme than changing the way you kill livestock imo.

 

[Subduction Zone]

excuse me, but stunning is painful. It's just as painful as a shech.

The observable evidence contradicts that claim. A stunned cow collapses immediately. A cow that has had its throat cut is still kicking and squirming. It is obviously not enjoying the process. A stunned cow is all but dead. It does not react.