The hyksos were one of the rulers of Egypt. They were later expelled from the country, which now seems to be the exodus that the bible had documented. It sounds possible, that the rulers of the hyksos race after their sound defeat in Egypt needed to boost their people's morale. What better way to do this by creating numerous books which had a self professed god that says follow it or you shall be destroyed. In order to have control on their people since no than likely there was no confidence in the leaders, the leaders had to find a way to make thier people follow their directions with no questions or rebellions. Hence a self proclaimed powerful god. Seems very possible. What do you think?
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Could the Hyksos be the Ancient Hebrew of the bible?
- Thread starter ProfLogic
- Start date
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
It seems more probable to me that if there is an association between the Hebrews and the Hyksos that the Hebrew mythmakers simply modified the story of the Hyskos but they aren't actually the same people.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
ProfLogic said:
Glamorize a nation's birth in myth.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
jewscout said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyskos
"Some scholars controversially associate the Hyksos to the ancient Hebrews, seeing their departure from Egypt as the story retold in the Exodus. It is significant that the Hyksos departure as such is not currently known from any Levantine literature contemporary with the event, while the Exodus is told in the Bible as the formative event of Jewish culture."
"
A 2006 documentary created by Jewish Canadian film maker Simcha Jacobovich, which explores new evidence in favour of the historicity of the Biblical Exodus, Exodus Decoded, investigates Egyptian records of the departure of the mysterious Semitic Hyksos people. Jacobovich suggests that the Hyksos and the Hebrews were one and the same, a thesis he supports with Egyptian-style signet rings uncovered in the Hyksos capital of Avaris that read "Yakob," the Hebrew name of the Biblical patriach Jacob. Another standpoint for this theory is one of the important Hyksos city which was called Tell el-Yahudiyeh (meaning "mound of the Jews") known for its distinctive black and whiteware.
In his Antiquities of the Jews and Against Appion, Josephus recounts a tale supposedly from Manetho, identifying the expulsion of the Jews (the Exodus) both with the Hyksos, and with the expulsion of a group of Asiatic lepers, led by a renegade Egyptian priest called Osarseph. It appears this tale is a conflation of events of the Amarna period, of the earlier Hyksos expulsion, and events at the end of the 19th Dynasty. Josephus is also responsible for the false etymology that Hyksos in fact stood for Hekw Shasu - '"Wandering Shepherd Kings" - which has only been corrected by more modern scholarship."
angellous_evangellous said:
It makes perfect sense, I also thought that similar to a leader that needs to gather his/her troops morale to fight for their existense, what better ways to convince people to fight for you by saying a powerful being is behind your people. Take orders and do not question it cause it came from a self proclaimed powerful being. Cave dwellers had the same principle when they had trials and tribal wars. They have the trials and say who ever does well is with a god.... their god not the bible god.
angellous_evangellous said:
I got this informaton from an Egyptian which in their school teachings says the hyksos was associated with the earliest civilizations and had a connection with adam and eve.. hence it looks like a very possible link between the hyksos and the hebrews...
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
ProfLogic said:
You're just associating popular myths... not any kind of archeological or literary evidence.
Not a good method, Prof.
kateyes
Active Member
The biggest proponent of this theory is Ahmed Osman--alot of this theory is explained at his web site:
http://www.ahmedosman.co.uk/
http://www.ahmedosman.co.uk/
kateyes
Active Member
Found the other stuff--author is Ralph Ellis--he carries Osman theories further. More on his articles can be found at:
http://freespace.virgin.net/kena.edfu/articles.html
http://www.world-mysteries.com/gw_rellis.htm
I am not going to vouch for his credencials--but alot of what he writes seems to make sense to me.
EXCERPT:
"This investigation had begun several years ago with a paper in which I traced the history of the early biblical patriarchs and demonstrated similarities with the Hyksos pharaohs of Egypt. If the truth were known, the biblical Exodus of lowly shepherds out of Egypt may have been the historical exodus of the Hyksos Shepherd Kings out of Egypt.
"But what of the later and more famous Judaic monarchs from the United Monarchy of Israel? What of King David and King Solomon? While these monarchs were undoubtedly missing from the archaeological record of Judaea, could they too have had an Egyptian ancestry and heritage? This suggestion might initially seem to be highly unlikely, as it is obvious that nothing in the biblical history of the United Monarchy can be directly compared to the chronologically equivalent pharaohs within the 21st and 22nd dynasties of Egypt. But perhaps the real problem here, is that this accepted axiom is so obvious that nobody has actually tried comparing these two dynasties, and upon making an initial comparison I was surprised to find a great number of similarities between the separate 10th century BC monarchies of Israel and Egypt. For instance, the following table lists the known pharaohs of the twenty-first dynasty and compares these names with the equivalent biblical ancestors of King David:
"Biblical leaders....Historical pharaohs
Ezron (Hezron).....Ramesses
Ram..................Ramesses
Amminadab......Amen-Nesbanebdjed (Smendes)
Nahshon...........Nemneshu (Amenemnishu)
Salmon............Siamun
Boaz................Bas-Uasorkon
Obed...............Amenemopet
Jesse..............Harsiese
David...............Psusennes II
"Some of the entries in the above list can be seen to be direct equivalents of each other, while some of the other names look less convincing. For the latter entries, perhaps some extra explanations are required, and these are listed below. The top line in each case represents the biblical pronunciation (B), while the lower line is the historical equivalent (H):
B Ez- .... -ron,
H Esses- -ram (Ramesses X),
B Ram,
H Ram- -esses (Ramesses XI),
B Ammin- ......... -nad -dab,
H Amen- -Nes -ba -neb -djed,
B ... ......... Nah- -shon,
H Amenem -Ne -shu,
B S- -almon,
H Si- -amun,
B B- ... -Oaz,
H Bas- -Uas- -orkon,
B ... ......... Obed,
H Amenem- -Opet,
B Je- .. -sse,
H Har- -siese,
B David,
H Psusennes.
"This list clearly demonstrates that there are some equivalent names in both the historical chronology of Egypt and the biblical chronology of the United Monarchy indeed the two royal lines appear to mimic each other remarkably well. But there is a problem with this suggestion, because the pharaonic king-list ends up with a pharaoh called Psusennes, whereas the biblical chronology results in King David. On the surface, there would appear to be no comparison to be made between these two monarchs whatsoever.
"The method of making progress in this research is not simply to compare names, but to look at these characters attributes as well. There are two main claims to fame for King David: phrases and imagery that have come down to us through the centuries and the millennia, and which are probably as familiar to us now as they were nearly three thousand years ago during the reign of this famous king the Star of David and the City of David. Having highlighted these two, unique terms, the primary goal of this investigation would seem to be self-explanatory: if a member of the Egyptian royal family can be found who is strongly associated with both a star and a city, we may well be a long way down the road to resolving the identity of the historical King David.
"As it happens, there was an Egyptian pharaoh of the twenty-first dynasty whose name in the hieroglyphic spelling encompassed both the star * and the city * glyphs, and he was called Pa-seba-kha-en-nuit.
"The initial similarity between these two monarchs is, therefore, quite striking, and so the possibility exists that these monarchs may have been either related to each other or, more provocatively, the same individual. Having discovered this synchronism, it was even more interesting to find that the common Greek name for this particular pharaoh was Psusennes the very same pharaoh who appears in the Egyptian king-list next to the biblical King David. It would appear that these two monarchs not only had similar attributes, but they also reigned at exactly the same time, according to the standard chronology.
"However, if these two kings now appear to have once had rather similar attributes, their names still seem to be remarkably different. If these two monarchs are to be compared in some manner, then how did the biblical scribes manage to confuse a complicated Egyptian name like Pa-seba-kha-en-nuit (Psusennes) with the Judaic name, David? The simple answer to this, is that the name David is a greatly shortened nickname, based upon the star glyph. The common pronunciation for this glyph is seba *, as can be seen from the name Pa-seba-kha-en-nuit. However, seba is not the only word in Egyptian that can be used to describe a star, and the one that the scribes were thinking about when they made the Judaic translation of this name was actually djuat.
"The Hebrew form of the name David is pronounced Daveed dwd and even in this translation it is not difficult to see how this name was derived from the Egyptian original of djuat or djuait. But the Hebrew translation, as given in the text books, is not necessarily the original pronunciation of this royal name. The name of King David is only given by the three consonants of Daleth, Waw and Daleth, which can actually give us the name DVD or DUD dwd, and this is recognised as being the short form of the name David.
"Since true vowels are not written in Hebrew text, they have to be inserted between these consonants to produce a name like DaVaD or DaUaD. But if the true pronunciation of this name is unknown then this insertion of vowels is largely based upon guesswork, and if the initial vowel were deleted in this particular case, then the resulting name for King David would be either DVaD or DUaD. Rectifying this error in pronunciation would mean that the real Hebrew name for King David was actually Duad, whereas the Egyptian word for this star was pronounced djuat. But since the t and d consonants are almost interchangeable within the Egyptian alphabet, the words djuat and djuad could be considered to be direct equivalents of each other. Only now can the truth of the matter be clearly seen, the Judaean King known as David [Duad] was most probably the Egyptian pharaoh called Psusennes (Pa-djuat-kha-en-nuit)."
http://freespace.virgin.net/kena.edfu/articles.html
http://www.world-mysteries.com/gw_rellis.htm
I am not going to vouch for his credencials--but alot of what he writes seems to make sense to me.
EXCERPT:
"This investigation had begun several years ago with a paper in which I traced the history of the early biblical patriarchs and demonstrated similarities with the Hyksos pharaohs of Egypt. If the truth were known, the biblical Exodus of lowly shepherds out of Egypt may have been the historical exodus of the Hyksos Shepherd Kings out of Egypt.
"But what of the later and more famous Judaic monarchs from the United Monarchy of Israel? What of King David and King Solomon? While these monarchs were undoubtedly missing from the archaeological record of Judaea, could they too have had an Egyptian ancestry and heritage? This suggestion might initially seem to be highly unlikely, as it is obvious that nothing in the biblical history of the United Monarchy can be directly compared to the chronologically equivalent pharaohs within the 21st and 22nd dynasties of Egypt. But perhaps the real problem here, is that this accepted axiom is so obvious that nobody has actually tried comparing these two dynasties, and upon making an initial comparison I was surprised to find a great number of similarities between the separate 10th century BC monarchies of Israel and Egypt. For instance, the following table lists the known pharaohs of the twenty-first dynasty and compares these names with the equivalent biblical ancestors of King David:
"Biblical leaders....Historical pharaohs
Ezron (Hezron).....Ramesses
Ram..................Ramesses
Amminadab......Amen-Nesbanebdjed (Smendes)
Nahshon...........Nemneshu (Amenemnishu)
Salmon............Siamun
Boaz................Bas-Uasorkon
Obed...............Amenemopet
Jesse..............Harsiese
David...............Psusennes II
"Some of the entries in the above list can be seen to be direct equivalents of each other, while some of the other names look less convincing. For the latter entries, perhaps some extra explanations are required, and these are listed below. The top line in each case represents the biblical pronunciation (B), while the lower line is the historical equivalent (H):
B Ez- .... -ron,
H Esses- -ram (Ramesses X),
B Ram,
H Ram- -esses (Ramesses XI),
B Ammin- ......... -nad -dab,
H Amen- -Nes -ba -neb -djed,
B ... ......... Nah- -shon,
H Amenem -Ne -shu,
B S- -almon,
H Si- -amun,
B B- ... -Oaz,
H Bas- -Uas- -orkon,
B ... ......... Obed,
H Amenem- -Opet,
B Je- .. -sse,
H Har- -siese,
B David,
H Psusennes.
"This list clearly demonstrates that there are some equivalent names in both the historical chronology of Egypt and the biblical chronology of the United Monarchy indeed the two royal lines appear to mimic each other remarkably well. But there is a problem with this suggestion, because the pharaonic king-list ends up with a pharaoh called Psusennes, whereas the biblical chronology results in King David. On the surface, there would appear to be no comparison to be made between these two monarchs whatsoever.
"The method of making progress in this research is not simply to compare names, but to look at these characters attributes as well. There are two main claims to fame for King David: phrases and imagery that have come down to us through the centuries and the millennia, and which are probably as familiar to us now as they were nearly three thousand years ago during the reign of this famous king the Star of David and the City of David. Having highlighted these two, unique terms, the primary goal of this investigation would seem to be self-explanatory: if a member of the Egyptian royal family can be found who is strongly associated with both a star and a city, we may well be a long way down the road to resolving the identity of the historical King David.
"As it happens, there was an Egyptian pharaoh of the twenty-first dynasty whose name in the hieroglyphic spelling encompassed both the star * and the city * glyphs, and he was called Pa-seba-kha-en-nuit.
"The initial similarity between these two monarchs is, therefore, quite striking, and so the possibility exists that these monarchs may have been either related to each other or, more provocatively, the same individual. Having discovered this synchronism, it was even more interesting to find that the common Greek name for this particular pharaoh was Psusennes the very same pharaoh who appears in the Egyptian king-list next to the biblical King David. It would appear that these two monarchs not only had similar attributes, but they also reigned at exactly the same time, according to the standard chronology.
"However, if these two kings now appear to have once had rather similar attributes, their names still seem to be remarkably different. If these two monarchs are to be compared in some manner, then how did the biblical scribes manage to confuse a complicated Egyptian name like Pa-seba-kha-en-nuit (Psusennes) with the Judaic name, David? The simple answer to this, is that the name David is a greatly shortened nickname, based upon the star glyph. The common pronunciation for this glyph is seba *, as can be seen from the name Pa-seba-kha-en-nuit. However, seba is not the only word in Egyptian that can be used to describe a star, and the one that the scribes were thinking about when they made the Judaic translation of this name was actually djuat.
"The Hebrew form of the name David is pronounced Daveed dwd and even in this translation it is not difficult to see how this name was derived from the Egyptian original of djuat or djuait. But the Hebrew translation, as given in the text books, is not necessarily the original pronunciation of this royal name. The name of King David is only given by the three consonants of Daleth, Waw and Daleth, which can actually give us the name DVD or DUD dwd, and this is recognised as being the short form of the name David.
"Since true vowels are not written in Hebrew text, they have to be inserted between these consonants to produce a name like DaVaD or DaUaD. But if the true pronunciation of this name is unknown then this insertion of vowels is largely based upon guesswork, and if the initial vowel were deleted in this particular case, then the resulting name for King David would be either DVaD or DUaD. Rectifying this error in pronunciation would mean that the real Hebrew name for King David was actually Duad, whereas the Egyptian word for this star was pronounced djuat. But since the t and d consonants are almost interchangeable within the Egyptian alphabet, the words djuat and djuad could be considered to be direct equivalents of each other. Only now can the truth of the matter be clearly seen, the Judaean King known as David [Duad] was most probably the Egyptian pharaoh called Psusennes (Pa-djuat-kha-en-nuit)."
Bishka
Veteran Member
Actually, in my Old Testament class last block, we were talking about the Pharoah and Joseph (the colored coat Joseph that is).
My teacher mentioned that the Pharoah could have been a Hyksos Pharoah, and that the next Pharoah after that who "knew not Joseph" was not a Hyksos.
This idea/theory was also confirmed by a completley diffeerent teacher in my humanities/history class when we were studying ancient egypt last week.
My teacher mentioned that the Pharoah could have been a Hyksos Pharoah, and that the next Pharoah after that who "knew not Joseph" was not a Hyksos.
This idea/theory was also confirmed by a completley diffeerent teacher in my humanities/history class when we were studying ancient egypt last week.
kateyes said:
Now it appears to be that the Hyksos did influence the contents of the bible and was meant to document egyptian history since Egypt was one of the most glamourous civilizations in the ancient world then. Due to their exile, more than likely their leaders had hatred and revenge int heir minds, thus creating a vengeful god in the bible in terms of the OT. I always question the fact that if there is thing that says it is the one god why would no other culture know it besides when they were invaded by explorers. That to me is purely man made... and can be traced back to the hyksos.
Based on the ramblings of one website? What a joke. Have you taken the time to read any, any serious work on the topic? The answer is clearly "no" but, obviously, you'll embrace any piece of nonsense available if it supports your anti-Bible agenda. You disgrace logic.ProfLogic said:
An improvement ... thanks.SoyLeche said:I fixed your post