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Could somebody please sum these questions up for me?

Discussion in 'Christianity DIR' started by Hacker, Aug 11, 2006.

  1. Hacker

    Hacker Well-Known Member

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    Hi,
    I have a few questions that I find hard to accept as being understandable and logical in Christianity particularly the bible
    1. Why did God ALLOW his only son to die on the cross (bruitally) for our sins, couldn't he have thought of another way for our sins to be forgiven? That seems a little harsh to me, but I'm willing to try to at least understand in my best possible way:) (by the way, i'm not VERY educated about religions, just a few)
    2. How could God, allow himself to punish those who sinned, which the bible refers to him saying "shall be put to death", for things like working on Sunday:sarcastic (forget which verse.)
    3. If reincarnation can't be proven in today's bible, then why was it considered an integral part of Christianity way back in history? And if it doesn't exist, then how could a GOd that loves us so much send ANY of his childeren in a burning pit for eternity(MANY references in the bible pertaining to that), for not accepting Christ. I know it's not DIFFICULT to accept him out of this much fear but is this really logical(i will admit, fear part of the reason why I'm questioning this AND my logic won't rest with it.
    And if a very educated christian could....I would appreciate a nice condenced EASY understanding of the MAIN concept in regards to christianity...like what is salvation(I grew up Catholic but still don't get it), what is the meaning behind Christ having to die for our sins? Thank you and I'm sorry if I seem hypocritical, and I do respect Christ and can easily accept him, but I just can't seem to grasp some of the quotes pertaining to and angry and vengeful God. Thanks!:eek:
     
  2. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    I consider myself a Christian but the following replies are not mainstream Christianity:

    1. God created the universe for free will. Why would He not allow His Son to make this choice? Don't worship the human body, no human lives forever. Jesus did not die for our sins, we have always been forgiven.

    2. God has never punished anyone. Free will and punishment do not go together. Those terrible things that the Old Testament writers blamed God for were simply things that the people had no understanding of so they wrote them down as acts of God. Even today we still have the saying but does anyone believe that God still sends storms or causes the ground to shake?

    3. There is no hell. Why would God create such a place? There truly is nothing to be afraid of. Live and experience everything you can. Learn and grow.
     
  3. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Hi, ticmel.

    Well, I can't speak on behalf of all Christians, but I'll give you my take on these questions.

    In a nutshell, God gave mankind a law: Obey my commandments -- all of them, all of the time. He outlined (in advance) the consequences for disobedience: Permanent separation from Him. Once a debt is incurred (i.e. a sin has been committed), payment for that debt is required. The debt need not (and cannot, in fact) be paid by the person who incurred it, but must be repaid by someone who is without sin and is therefore worthy to atone for the sins of others. There was only one individual who met the requirement: Jesus Christ. In other words, it is impossible to "be perfect" once you've sinned and perfection is required. I like to think of it this way: What is the sum of a finite, negative number (i.e. my sins) and an infinite, positive number (i.e. Christ's perfection)? It's infinity, of course. Alone, I am a sinner. But when I have entered into a covenant relationship with Him, I am "perfect" in Him.

    If He were to be inconsistent in punishing those who disobey, He would no longer be God. But the fact that He allowed His Only Begotten Son to accept the punishment on our behalf, we will not be punished if we repent.

    You're going to have to explain this further. I don't believe in reincarnation, but I don't believe that He's going to condemn anyone to a burning pit for eternity either.

    The point you've missed is that not all Christians believe these things. There is a wide range of opinions between Christians on all of these topics.
     
  4. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

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    I can TRY to answer.... but I'll also back up my words from the Bible...
    Because someone has to pay the consequences...

    God said the penalty for sin (ANY sin), is death... as in eternal, spiritual death...



    So - anyone who has been found to have sinned will be punished for it... eternal death.

    Every single one of us has and will sin...


    ... so unless someone without sin pays the price, each one of us will have to pay it for ourselves.

    But because God Loves each one of us so much...


    ...that as Jesus (a Man totally without sin)...

    ...He took all of mankind's sin upon Himself and paid the penalty for it, even to the point of being forsaken by God the Father for it...
    Here is a link to an essay that explains this, if you're interested.

    BUT - Jesus didn't stay dead. He conquered eternal spiritual death by His resurrection...

    ... and in doing so, assured that all who believe in Him will be resurrected into eternal life as well...
    See below....

    Huh? As you noted, this is not Biblical. Can you link to a source of this?
    Well, on the day of judgement, all will be held accountable for their actions.
    Those who have accepted the free Gift of Life have already had that condemnation paid for by Jesus. God does not DESIRE that any should perish...

    Salvation is available to every person. But He also gave us free will. So it's each of us who chooses either eternal Life or eternal Death.

    FWIW ~ I did not accept Christ out of fear, but because of His Love for me.... and His assurance of forgiveness for things I can't even forgive myself for.
    That rules me out :rolleyes:
    Paul summed it up pretty good...

    In other words (mine :D) when you, I, Katz, Super U. or anyone accepts Jesus' free gift of forgiveness (as in washed clean, sin forgotten, buried, never happened!), we are reconciled, made new, perfected in God's eyes.... completely set free from the sins we have and will yet commit.

    Jesus is the ONLY one who can grant that salvation. Not a church, religion, prophet, priest, bishop ... No-one ...

     
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  5. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Jesus didn't die for our sins, he died because of them. And he forgave us for them even as we tortured and murdered him.
    Those were the "old rules". When Jesus came he gave us a new command: to love God with all our hearts and to love each other as we love ourselves. As long as we do this, God's will is fulfilled, and you needn't concern yourself with the old religious rules.
    God doesn't send anyone to hell. God has forgiven everyone for everything even before we existed. We are told, however, that "with the forgiveness you forgive others, so shall you be forgiven". Conversely, I would assume this means that if we don't learn to forgive others in this life, then we will not be able to forgive ourselves when this life is over and we can finally see truly who and what we have been. Thus we will condemn ourselves in the end, when we can finally see ourselves as we really are. However, if we have learned the practice of forgiveness, by practicing it in our lives here on Earth, we will be able to forgive ourselves when the time comes that our lives here are over, and our eyes are opened to who we really have been. I believe that "hell" is a self-imposed state of loathing brought on by our own inability and unwillingness to forgive.

    As to reincarnation, all that does is prolong the situation by spreading it out over many lives, instead of just one. So I don't give it much thought, really.
    You have nothing at all to fear. God loves you unconditionally, has forgiven you for everything even before you existed, and will never condemn you.

    All that's left to you now is to decide how you will respond to this gift of God's love. Will you revel in it, enjoy it, and share it with others as Jesus commanded? Or will you ignore it and go on with life feeling alone, and finding meaning only in the endless pursuit of personal desires?
    Ignore them. Christ is all that matters. And Christ is God's love "made flesh", meaning in human form. That's your form, and my form. God's love lives in us, and is expressed by our loving each other. That's all there is to it. The other stuff you've heard is just religion trying to make itself into something it's not. I find it's best to just ignore it.
     
  6. Hacker

    Hacker Well-Known Member

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    Thank you all so much for the replies!

    Now, I still just can't seem to grasp why God denotes that paying the price for a sin requires some kind of death! Yikes!! Couldn't he just allowed us to repent without having his son to go through such torment? It sounds to me like whoever wrote the Bible was putting fear in those so they can follow his religion, because it's filled with so many quotes that make it SO obvious that..if you don't become Christian then guess what? You'll BURN, whoever wrote that bible(remember the Bible is man made) is one SICK pup, SICK!!! I hope the coming of CHrist happens soon because we need the truth. And before Christ, did everyone go to hell? Hmmmmm, can't grasp it and I guess I never will thanks folks! ANd to blame some devil when GOd is powerful enough to just get rid of him sounds like some fairy tale to me! And if we are created in his image, then why would sin be of such a concern? It's just not logical at all, I think people just go along with it because of all of the fear incorporated into this Holy(yah right) bible!! I just get to angry to talk about it, I guess I'll believe what I want to believe. NO wonder there is so much violence and confusion today, look at what our supposed moral code(the bible) represents! SICK!! I can't seem to read the bible cause I get this sick feeling everytime because of SOME of the things I read. I want to accept everthing that is said in the bible so bad, but these questions continue to haunt me. And no it's not the Devil because I've been doing some intense praying to Jesus and GOd(because Jesus prayed to God)for the truth that will shed some light and ultimately comfort. SOrry but this is just how I feel and it's so sad.:(
     
  7. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    Christ already came to the earth once. There are pages and pages of His teachings. What more do you need?

    You cannot resolve why the Old Testament and the New Testament disagree? One promotes an eye for an eye while the other preaches forgiveness. Both cannot be true. Decide for yourself which you will follow.

    Do you think this is a difficult decision for God? Harm life or give endless mercy?

    You think all this confusion was created by God or Jesus? It was created by man who refused to accept revelation. Men could not just forget their old tribal ways of animal sacrifice and so they wrote it into the Old Testament. Man installed an eye for an eye into the Old Testament. Ancient man did not understand meteors so they say that God sent fireballs from the sky. They did not understand the cause of drought and plague so they blamed it on God. God has never done these things.

    It's up to you to decide because only you are responsible for your beliefs.
     
  8. Hacker

    Hacker Well-Known Member

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    I'm not blaming God, I think the confusion was created by man just like you said, so there you go.
    thanks for the reply
     
  9. Hacker

    Hacker Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, look to the next thread.
     
  10. Hacker

    Hacker Well-Known Member

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  11. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

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    Here are my answers according to my LDS-Christian POV.

    There are two eternal laws: The Law of Justice and the Law of Mercy. Both must be perfectly satisfied, but both conflict with each other. Jesus dying on the cross satisfies the Law of Justice. He paid the penalty for everyone's sins. Because of this, the Law of Mercy can be satisfied as well because, if we accept Christ, then we can be forgiven and avoid punishment. So, from my POV, Jesus' sacrifice was an act of love. Was it brutal? Absolutely. But it also saved the rest of us from suffering as long as we accept Christ.


    The death referred to is a spiritual death and may be defined as separation from God. God is perfect and any unclean thing may not enter his presence. However, as mentioned in my answer to question 1, the Law of Mercy allows us to be forgiven, essentially make us perfect and through Christ, worthy to enter God's presense, avoiding this spiritual death.

    I think the "burning pit" you reference is figurative. It represents the torment we feel because of our separation from God. As to why it was considered an integral part of Christianity...I'll let someone else handle that one.

    Salvation is being saved from the two deaths. The first being physical death. We overcome this through the resurrection. Second is the spiritual death, which we overcome by accepting Christ and repenting of our sins. I believe I've already answered why Christ died for our sins in question 1.

    In summary, the angry and vengeful God portrayed is usually references to the Law of Justice. It's describing what happens when we don't accept the gift he has given us, which allows the Law of Mercy to be applied to us.

    Please feel free to comment or ask any other questions regarding my POV. Thanks.
     
  12. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

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    We aren't smart enough to understand.

    Have you ever loved someone so much that you would take her or his place if that person were about to die a horrible death? Well.... even if you could somehow comprehend that kind of selfless love, it's nothing compared to how much God loves you. He was not only willing to take your place.... He already did it.
     
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  13. Hacker

    Hacker Well-Known Member

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    Either we weren't smart enough to understand OR the man who wrote the bible misinterpreted the concept of love. Jesus REALLY suffered and I think God is powerful enough to forgive us without him having to suffer, and mercy or justice for our sins is that we reap what we sow,(karma) not JUST repent because of someone's death,unless like you said, i'm just not smart enough to know.
     
  14. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

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    Men did the writing, but God did the talking...
    Following Christ is not about following a religion... anyone can go through the motions without having any faith at all. In fact, as I alluded to in an earlier post - salvation doesn't come from a priest or church or religion (including "Christianity.") Salvation comes from believing that the God who cannot lie, made a Promise.
     
  15. Hacker

    Hacker Well-Known Member

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    VERY well said, that's like a nice breez to my soul!:rainbow1: So I guess you question the bible also?
     
  16. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

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    God has a reason for everything. It's pretty rare that even the most educated religious scholar can even pretend to understand God's purpose.

    Sure, He probably *could* have found another way to save us. But He didn't.
     
  17. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

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    What greater way to show us His Love?
     
  18. Hacker

    Hacker Well-Known Member

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    He didn't, well, hopefully my prayers will be answered so I can understand...I studied a lot of the bible by the way. I think God will lead me to the right place and that's all I'm asking for, I do want to belong and I DO want the truth and I can't hold the bible accountable for being the truth exclusively since it was man made and some of it's versus don't resonate with me. I do believe in God and that Jesus was a very spiritual part of God with supernatural abilites in which made him "Godlike" which is why he is referred to as God. All i have to do is look around and see this wonderful creation and how intelligent reproduction is, and just the human body in general is so eloquently and intelligently designed. For example, pregnancy is SO amazing, that I am just so facinated with how a human being just grows from ONE fertilized TINY egg, it's amazing. I mean there is so much intelligence that is surrounding us, like how a tree can grow from the ground and turn out so beautifully from some outside source not JUST a seed. Hope that don't sound too wierd so I do believe in God wholeheartedly. But people, (Christians) I REALLY want to understand but I guess I'm a lost cause right now and i'm not trying to be rude but no one has YET explained it enough to resonate with me, I mean they believe it wholeheartedly and that's great and I guess i'm TRYING so hard to. Thank you.
     
  19. Hacker

    Hacker Well-Known Member

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    Okay that makes sense, there's a law of justice and a law of mercy and so it's compatable instead of conflicting because Jesus's death fulfilled the law of justice so OUR mercy is saved, correct? Well, before Christ, people really must have suffered because we were "born" to sin you know? But thank you that did makes some sense. I WILL be pursuing this subject of Christianity with persistance because I DO want to understand and I thank you all greatly, God bless and may peace be within every one of our souls.)( If anyone else wants to shed some light, that would be great. I'm not going to however keep repeating my questions as to WHY Jesus had to DIE brutally because I would appear to be argumentative, hard headed and just sound like a broken record, but if you have anymore to say, I will read it(like I did the others) with authenticiy and diligence.:) You guys are all wonderful, bless you and Thank you thank you!:rainbow1:
     
  20. nutshell

    nutshell Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe in original sin, but eventually we all will make mistakes.
     
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