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Could it be any more obvious that Brexit is manipulated?

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
And Theresa May is a **** who's into it.

Like when there was a huge demonstration against it BBC ....well, it didn't exist to BBC. BBC did not report it but Later it reported falsely. It was related to the demonstration but they omitted the fact that ..there was a demonstration going on.

So what?

I can't believe some people believe Theresa May isn't just as manipulated as Pen and Assad.

Theresa wanted to stay and landed the job as pm because Cameron the pm during the referendum took the cowards way out and resigned.

Although both sides lied a lot it was the people who voted that decided the issue and the majority, however small the margin voted out.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
Theresa wanted to stay and landed the job as pm because Cameron the pm during the referendum took the cowards way out and resigned.
Absolute rubbish. Cameron had led the losing campaign, there was no way he could then credibly change sides and negotiate for the UK to leave the EU.

Although both sides lied a lot it was the people who voted that decided the issue and the majority, however small the margin voted out.
But even this is starting to look dodgy, extra monies spent, Facebook manipulation, Cambridge Analytica, Aaron Banks illegal payments...need I say more.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I think the British, since they don't have the Euro currency are unable to see the bigger picture, so they don't understand why Nigel Farage repeatedly accuses Soros of boycotting the process of withdrawal....
and some other unexplainable things...for example why Bank of England will keep owning the 13 % of the ECB.
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
And Theresa May is a **** who's into it.

Like when there was a huge demonstration against it BBC ....well, it didn't exist to BBC. BBC did not report it but Later it reported falsely. It was related to the demonstration but they omitted the fact that ..there was a demonstration going on.

I can't believe some people believe Theresa May isn't just as manipulated as Pen and Assad.
...huh?
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
I think the British, since they don't have the Euro currency are unable to see the bigger picture, so they don't understand why Nigel Farage repeatedly accuses Soros of boycotting the process of withdrawal....
and some other unexplainable things...for example why Bank of England will keep owning the 13 % of the ECB.
Cool! First time I've Soros invoked in a non US conspiracy theory!
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
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We cannot get a better deal with EU countries than we currently have - it is a Free Trade organisation, you can't get better than free trade.

If it were only a free trade organisation then Britain would still be part of it. The major problem with the EU is the ideological project that goes along with it, the movement towards 'ever closer union', a federal Europe. Centralisation of power across a linguistically and culturally diverse set of countries, with no common public sphere can never really be democratic.

The Euro has been a disaster for many countries, and the rush to expand free movement of people to the former Eastern Bloc countries is what caused Brexit.

It is also demonstrated by the attitude among many that Britain has to be 'punished', to act as a deterrent against others leaving if they gave Britain a win-win deal.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
It is also demonstrated by the attitude among many that Britain has to be 'punished', to act as a deterrent against others leaving if they gave Britain a win-win deal.

As I said before, UK gives the EU much more than it receives, so, not only it deserves to exit on its own terms, but it doesn't owe any money, also because it is illegal that a supranational entity demands money from a sovereign state, a subject of International Law.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
As I said before, UK gives the EU much more than it receives, so, not only it deserves to exit on its own terms, but it doesn't owe any money, also because it is illegal that a supranational entity demands money from a sovereign state, a subject of International Law.
The deal we are currently heading for will cost us even more and we will lose our bargaining power.
 

Shushersbedamned

Well-Known Member
Theresa wanted to stay and landed the job as pm because Cameron the pm during the referendum took the cowards way out and resigned.

Although both sides lied a lot it was the people who voted that decided the issue and the majority, however small the margin voted out.
Sounds like you wouldn't have had the courage to resign.
 

Shushersbedamned

Well-Known Member
As I said before, UK gives the EU much more than it receives, so, not only it deserves to exit on its own terms, but it doesn't owe any money, also because it is illegal that a supranational entity demands money from a sovereign state, a subject of International Law.
They have existing contracts.
 

Shushersbedamned

Well-Known Member
If it were only a free trade organisation then Britain would still be part of it. The major problem with the EU is the ideological project that goes along with it, the movement towards 'ever closer union', a federal Europe.
an interesting ideology. If only it had something to do with the subject .....
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
If it were only a free trade organisation then Britain would still be part of it. The major problem with the EU is the ideological project that goes along with it, the movement towards 'ever closer union', a federal Europe. Centralisation of power across a linguistically and culturally diverse set of countries, with no common public sphere can never really be democratic.

And the problem with Brexit is that the UK is removing itself as an anti-federalisation voice in Brussels which ironically increases the chances of the very thing Brexiteers want to avoid.


The Euro has been a disaster for many countries, and the rush to expand free movement of people to the former Eastern Bloc countries is what caused Brexit.

This isn't much of an argument since EU members are not forced to join the Euro and the UK had exemptions from even having to fulfil any of the convergence criteria.


It is also demonstrated by the attitude among many that Britain has to be 'punished', to act as a deterrent against others leaving if they gave Britain a win-win deal.

This attitude is more common sense than anything else. What club of any kind would allow its members to leave but retain all of the benefits they enjoyed as members without having to pay membership dues? If a post-Brexit UK gets a deal which is as good as it has now then there's literally no incentive to remain an EU member state.
 
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Altfish

Veteran Member
What club of any kind would allow its members to leave but retain all of the benefits they enjoyed as members without having to pay membership dues? If a post-Brexit UK gets a deal which is as good as it has now then there's literally no incentive to remain an EU member state.
This is the crux of why Brexiteers cannot get a good deal.
I have a fishing club membership, it allows me to freely fish about 200 waters in the north west of England and Wales. If I were to leave, I cannot expect to be able to get an agreement to fish some of those waters but not abide by club rules and pay less. But this is what Johnson, Davis, Farage and Gove are promising.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I see that Leave.EU have been fined for breaking the Referendum spending limit...

Leave.EU fined £70,000 over breaches of electoral law

The legitimacy of this referendum is looking more doubtful everyday.
It appears that they did not even spend a million pounds on that referendum. By U.S. standards that is pretty cheap.

For example in Washington state in 2010 the several initiatives ran cost over 60 million dollars, and that was for just one state:

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/big-money-being-spent-in-state-initiative-campaigns/
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
It appears that they did not even spend a million pounds on that referendum. By U.S. standards that is pretty cheap.

For example in Washington state in 2010 the several initiatives ran cost over 60 million dollars, and that was for just one state:

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/big-money-being-spent-in-state-initiative-campaigns/
Yes, our elections are bad but yours are corrupt and fixed to suit people/businesses with money.
That is why both of your parties are to the right of our parties. (well maybe not the nut jobs on our right, but most of the Tory party)
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Yes, our elections are bad but yours are corrupt and fixed to suit people/businesses with money.
That is why both of your parties are to the right of our parties. (well maybe not the nut jobs on our right, but most of the Tory party)
That's a bit strong. I could argue that your voters are incompetent. After all we are talking about a relatively small amount spent on an initiative, a vote of the people. No politicians directly involved. Your people got bought off for peanuts compared to what it would take to get such an initiative passed here.

Also initiatives tend to be a bit more conservative than the legislature. There have been a couple of exceptions in my state. Gay marriage was an initiative here, as was pot legalization. Most initiatives that pass are involved in reigning in the spending of the state.
 
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