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Featured Could Christianity and Islam ever reach a consensus?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Lucian Hodoboc, Jul 23, 2017.

  1. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    I.may not be able to read Hebrew, but I do have the tools to translate Hebrew and the Greek to get to the root of the word to what is actually being said.

    I have what is called the companion bible. That has the Hebrew and Greek manual Scripts and translated into English. Both old and new testaments.
    And how archaeologist findings artifacts. That support what is written in the bible.But it amazes me with all these findings how people can still stand out against God.

    Take the dinosaurs bones for instance.Where or how did they come from?
    Well if a person reads the bible, Scriptures carefully, they would find within the pages,that God tells about that world that then was, and what happened to it and why.
    Look when you read, what your reading in what is in black and white in the pages.
    This is called the letter of the word.
    Which anyone who can read, can read.

    But now what about the Spirit of that word.
    Jesus said many times, he that has eyes to see and ears to hear let them see and hear what the Spirit is saying.

    Therefore there are two aspects to the scriptures, one being what is written in black and white and the other being in the spirit of the word.

    As disciple Paul had written, But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him, neither can he know them because they are Spiritually discerned.

    Therefore there are many things in the scriptures to those that have eyes to see and ears to hear what the Spirit of God is saying.
    Look there are two aspects here in Matthew 24:19, What I am looking for, what is the Spirit of God saying in this verse?
    You can read what is in black and red, but what is the spirit of the word saying?
     
  2. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I think I've seen more than enough.
     
  3. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    Trust me, we already knew that.
     
  4. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't matter so much whether a person can read Hebrew or Greek as long as they have the tools that will translate Hebrew and Greek into English. By this will give them knowledge of what the words in Hebrew and Greek mean in English or vice versa.
     
  5. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Sure, if by tools you mean access to qualified and trustworthy people.
     
  6. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    You can go to about any Library's and get books on to translate Greek language into English or to how translate Hebrew into English. Or any other language like Russian, Chinese, Spanish and ect ----? Into English. So there Lay's the tools.
     
  7. Akivah

    Akivah Well-Known Member

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    What Christians are these? Are they all from the Unitarian denomination?
     
  8. Akivah

    Akivah Well-Known Member

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    He probably uses Strong's concordance and believes its accurate.
     
  9. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Sure you can. Is it worth the trouble, though?
     
  10. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member
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    How do you teach humans to live a righteous life interacting with your family, wife children, people of other cultures, heads of state etc when you choose to not do those things? If God really did manifest himself in human flesh, then why not give us a preserved written scripture rather than write nothing, nor check what has been written? Why not run a State and give us Law and regulations to carry us through the ages?

    Your response is baffling. It's almost like you know the whole thing makes no sense and are citing things that sound logical to make a case for the trinity.

    Why not drop this worship of three gods and turn back to the ONE True GOD of Abraham pbuh. Here's a description of his God:

    He is One, there is NOTHING like unto Him, nothing that you can imagine or fathom.
    He is Immortal
    He is neither born nor does he give birth
    He is all knowing
    He is all powerful
    He is eternal

    Does the made up god of Trinity match up to this description?
     
  11. Lucian Hodoboc

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    But he did teach those things!

    Nice attempt at a strawman argument, but it's not even based on logic. How do you teach someone something if you have never done that? Really? That's the best you can come up with? How do you teach people that drugs are bad for you if you have never tried them yourself? How could Muhammad teach people that Allah allows them to have only four wives, but he got preferential treatment and was allowed to have 9?

    Moreover, Jesus did teach about families and marriage. He said that those who can remain unmarried and abstinent, should do so ( Matthew 19:1-12 ), that doing God's will is more important than early family relationships ( Matthew 12:46-50 ), that the only ground for divorce is adultery ( Matthew 19:9 ) etc. Jesus also taught us how to interact with the heads of state ( Mark 12: 17 ). As for interacting with other cultures and how to raise your children, the mosaic laws already explained those things.

    And those are only things that Jesus Himself said. There's a lot more that the apostles taught about the issues you mentioned, but I didn't quote the apostles because you wanted teachings from The Son Of God Himself.

    The Holy Spirit inspired the people who wrote The Bible. If you're going to question God's mysterious ways, why don't you add the fact that Allah chose to send an angel to an illiterate merchant for 22 years to keep repeating the same message over and over again until he was able to recite it and have his followers write it down? Why couldn't Allah just instantly bring the Quran into existence? Why couldn't Allah just write the Quran on the sky with bright letters of fire so that everyone can see it?

    God already runs the entire Earth and has always ran it since its creation, and He will return to reign over the righteous for eternity. You wanted God to impose a dictatorial regime on Earth? Well, that would have went against the freedom of choice rule that He gave us after Adam and Eve ate from the tree.

    Your inability to understand that Christians do not believe in three gods is baffling. It's like we're talking to brick walls every time we're debating Muslims. We explain to them the difference between different beings and different persons (manifestations of the same being) and at the end of the explanation their brains just seem unable to process any of what they have been told.

    Yes, it does. Jesus was not created. He has always existed. God did not birth Him. Mary gave birth to His earthly body.
     
  12. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    One self-evident reason would be because scriptures and laws do not serve such a purpose. It takes living discernment, the ability and the willingness to actually perceive and judge the situations on a case-by-case basis and according to our own personal intellectual capacity for that to happen.
     
  13. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Sure Christ Jesus matches up to it in every way.
    But since you have no clue about who Jesus is or why he came here or what Jesus mission was, That leaves you in total ignorance of Jesus mission here on earth.

    Back while Jesus was here on earth, Jesus gave many Prophecy's, One of Jesus's Prophecy was about Muhammad, 600 yrs before Muhammad was born, You can find this Prophecy in the book of Matthew 24:24-26.

    Jesus speaking about how false Christ's and false prophets shall rise.

    Now according to your q'uran Muhammad was born and lived out in the desert, Ok.

    Jesus said in verse 26, Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert, go not there.
    Why, you might ask, because he is a false prophet.

    Notice Jesus said, ( Wherefore if they ) who is
    ( They ) this being Muslims come claiming Muhammad being a prophet. And Jesus saying Muhammad is a false prophet in the desert, not to go there.

    You know according to the q'uran Muhammad is the only one who claims to be a prophet and lived in the desert and Jesus gave prophecy 600 yrs before, about Muhammad a false prophet in the desert.
     
    #173 Faithofchristian, Aug 17, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
  14. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member
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    No he never married, never had children, never governed. Was never in a position of authority in his short Ministry.


    That's your argument, not mine. Christians maintain God had to become a man and do away with Thousands of years of tried and tested revelation using Prophets and Messengers.


    Divorce on grounds of adultery alone? What about domestic violence? You can see why he should have married as the expected Messiah was supposed to.


    No need to go off on a tangent. Why did the Holy Spirit inspire them to remain anonymous non eyewitnesses? Why did they make mistakes on Jewish Law, Geography and key events?


    Why do you equate rules on living a meaningful life, pleasing to God with a dictatorial regime?


    Well lets see if we can overcome my limited understanding on the Trinity and somehow reduce it to One God.


    The orthodox view is Jesus pbuh was 100% man and God at the same time. When Mary ra carried him in her womb for 9 Months and then gave birth, was Jesus pbuh the god born then too? When he died on the cross, did the god part of him die too? Does the Father pray to the son and take instructions from him? Does the father pray to the Holy Spirit and take instructions from him? Why was Jesus pbuh ignorant if he was all knowing?
     
  15. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    No that's not my argument, it's a fact, that you can not face. Jesus points out Muhammad is a false prophet and that's a fact that you can not face it.
     
  16. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member
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    Why not quote his words and explain his mission to me?

    He was telling his Disciples, he feared even they would be deceived. To my knowledge none of the Disciples lived til the 7th Century.

    ok


    Yes indeed.


    The only person that came from the Desert to the Disciples was Saul the Pharisee. The Desert on the outskirts of Damascus, and w know that was were Saul claimed to have met Jesus pbuh even though he said, the next time he would come, the whole World would see him. Notice Jesus pbuh warns about false prophets in locked rooms, and we know Saul claimed to have spoken to the Lord from a locked prison cell.

    The Dead Sea Scrolls and early letters quoted by the Church Fathers show Peter and James regarded Saul to be a false Prophet, hell bent on doing away with the Torah in direct opposition to what Jesus pbuh commanded in Matthew 5:17-19.

    btw Saul not only came in the name of Christ, he started a new Religion with 'Christ' in its name.


    Jesus pbuh also said, blessed are the 'peace makers' (Muslims). In the Torah God mentioned he would raise a Prophet from the Arabian Desert and those that did not listen to him would be held to account.
     
  17. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    You really got to be kidding, Muslims say religion of peace, then Muslims goes right out killing innocent people.Whats that all about.
    Jesus was not only speaking to his 12 disciples but also to those people that were there also, and to those people who afterwards that would come.like we to day can look at what Jesus is saying and that Jesus is pointing right at Muhammad as that false prophet.

    When God said he would rise a prophet like Moses this being Jesus and not Muhammad.
    Your right about one thing that Muhammad would come out of the Arabian Desert and Jesus give Prophecy about Muhammad is a false prophet that would come out of the desert. Arabian Desert.
     
    #177 Faithofchristian, Aug 17, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2017
  18. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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  19. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Just a reminder that if you quote someone make sure the "quote" (in brackets) is in front and the "/quote" (also in brackets) is at the end of the quote. It's hard to read and respond to your posts, and if you see you've made a mistake, you can "Edit" it.
     
  20. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member
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    What's that got to do with the Religion? People kill and murder for power and wealth. We see with groups like isis, they kill thousands of Muslims and smuggle oil and other goods for profit.

    Ok fine no problem, Jesus pbuh was warning about future Prophets. You have yet to prove Muhammad pbuh was such a false prophet.

    Bot Jesus pbuh and Muhammad pbuh taught the same message, both came to change some of the restrictive Torah Commandments and both said, worship GOD alone, and do good works amongst other things. Saul, who you as a Pauline Christian follow, did away with the Law and pinned salvation to the empty cross.

    Who was present when God addressed the people in Deut 18:18?

    Remember God was to put His 'words into the mouth' of that Prophet and he would only speak what he heard. Jesus pbuh was 100% God according to you, so wouldn't need God to tell him what to say. Indeed Jesus pbuh says a Prophet would come after him, and God would put His 'words into his mouth', i.e Deut 18:18

    And no it can not be the Holy Spirit Gabriel, as He pbuh was already present.
     
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