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Could Christianity and Islam ever reach a consensus?

LuisDantas

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
DavidFirth said:
Since you will remain silent, those of the faith will speak out.
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You presume to have better faith than me?

Do so at your own peril, and be warned that I do not have a lot of respect for such presumption, nor do I aim to.

I am all too familiar with arrogance, and I treat it with the (very little) respect that it deserves.

By all means, feel encouraged to seek another, more productive modes of interaction with me as with anyone else.

We all deserve better than such cocklike posturing. And I want to be convinced that so does your faith.
 
DavidFirth

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
Deidre said:
It's not for me to judge you but your posts are like this a lot, even in my Bible thread I recently started. Idk, when Jesus said to go out and make Disciples of all nations, he didn't mean to become self righteous as a means to an end.
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I am not self-righteous. When have I declared my own righteousness of which I have none? I declare the righteousness of God, the Son and the Holy Spirit, who spoke through the prophets Mohammed ignored as well as this individual.
 
DavidFirth

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
LuisDantas said:
You presume to have better faith than me?

Do so at your own peril, and be warned that I do not have a lot of respect for such presumption, nor do I aim to.
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The faithful to Christ are what I refer to. You faith in other things is not relevant here.
 
F

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Muslim-UK said:
In the NT it was the Scribes and Pharisees and no doubt those who followed them.

So you said, "So when your prophet muhammad in the Q'uran calls Jews and christians infidels and are to be killed, Your prophet muhammad and the Q'uran promotes the killing of Abraham's grand and Isaac children."

I asked where and you posted 8:12 which makes no mention of Jews and Christians.

9:29 is for those who don't believe in God and his Commandments. I don't see a problem with it? You say, your God, Jesus, Father and HS commanded non believers to be fought against in the Torah and New Testament, so I'm not sure what your issue is?
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Look in Surah 9:29 "Fight those who believe not in allah nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his messenger, nor truth, ( even if they are) of the People of the book, until they pay Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

What is so hard for you to see, That the People of the book is Christians.
That Christians do not believe in your God Allah.
Your prophet muhammad tells to Fight those who do not believe in Allah or the messenger.
Christians do not believe in Allah or Muhammad.

Surah 8:12 " I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every finger tips of them"

Let's see Christians do not believe in Allah or Muhammad, so Surah 8:12 said to strike off their heads and strike off their finger tips.
If you strike off someone head, You will kill them.
Yes this could mean anyone.
But in Surah 9:29 speaks of those People of the book, which are Christians of the book ( bible ).
It's very plain what the Q'uran will teach. To cut off people's heads that do not believe in Allah or prophet muhammad.

There is only one people of the book
( Bible ) Christians.
 
D

Deidre

Well-Known Member
DavidFirth said:
I am not self-righteous. When have I declared my own righteousness of which I have none? I declare the righteousness of God, the Son and the Holy Spirit, who spoke through the prophets Mohammed ignored as well as this individual.
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I know you have zeal for the faith but your posts lack humility, sometimes. That's all.
 
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Deidre

Well-Known Member
David, you should keep a journal. It's cathartic to write thoughts out and maybe people could understand your views a bit more.
 
D

Deidre

Well-Known Member
Mister Silver said:
Well, that could also be agnosticism, those who sit on the fence and state, "I don't know, maybe yes and maybe no."
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Well, it's not really about making judgements on the existence of deities it's more about finding value in various faiths. You could even do that as an atheist and just stay unbiased, you know?
 
Mister Silver

Mister Silver

Faith's Nightmare
Deidre said:
Well, it's not really about making judgements on the existence of deities it's more about finding value in various faiths. You could even do that as an atheist and just stay unbiased, you know?
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I know that. For instance, I like what Jesus taught....you know, those messages most "christians" today ignore.
 
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Deidre

Well-Known Member
Mister Silver said:
I know that. For instance, I like what Jesus taught....you know, those messages most "christians" today ignore.
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Hmmm lol Yes, Jesus seemed less complicated that many make him out to be yet...I'm reading the Bible again and it has a study guide with it, like professors at Harvard, etc who specialize in religion provided the footnotes etc and it's very interesting. Apparently, Jesus corroborated the OT so I think this is where the grievances come into play. For many, the NT Jesus is a cool guy to listen to but he was also a man who believed in much of what the Hebrews had taught, not the legalism parts. Most Christians believe that you can't just accept the NT Jesus without accepting the OT God.
 
Lucian Hodoboc

Lucian Hodoboc

Member
Saint Frankenstein said:
He's a strident Muslim and you're a strident Christian. Of course you're not going to "hear" each other. What did you expect?
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He's been bashing Jesus all throughout this thread, and when anyone points out anything flawed in regards to Muhammad, he immediately dismisses it and tries to avoid the topic. He's past the point of arguing why Islam and Christianity can't reach a consensus. He turned this thread into a "I know Jesus better than you do, Christians" statement.
 
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Deidre

Well-Known Member
Corroborate might not be the right word but the OT is basically a foreshadowing of the NT and Jesus speaks about the OT in the NT. Reading this with no bias right now helps me see the story in its entirety. It's not really two separate stories, the OT and NT.
 
Muslim-UK

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Faithofchristian said:
Look in Surah 9:29 "Fight those who believe not in allah nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his messenger, nor truth, ( even if they are) of the People of the book, until they pay Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

What is so hard for you to see, That the People of the book is Christians.
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Yes and as I said, no different to what Jesus pbuh commanded in the Bible. Depending on what sort of Christian you are, you too hold certain people of the Christian faith to be 'misguided'.

Faithofchristian said:
That Christians do not believe in your God Allah.
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Anglican Christians, Jehovah's Witnesses and Unitarians don't consider Jesus pbuh to be Elah that's found in the Bible either. Jews can pray in a Mosque but are forbidden to pray to 3 gods, thus banned from going anywhere near a Church. In that respect I would wholeheartedly agree Jews and Muslims do not worship the gods of Christianity.

Faithofchristian said:
Your prophet muhammad tells to Fight those who do not believe in Allah or the messenger.
Christians do not believe in Allah or Muhammad.
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Your Bible also says in Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. And I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. 19 And whoever will not listen to my words that he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him.

So those who reject God's Messengers are at war with the God of Abraham pbuh. I wish you all the luck in the World with that one :)

If you read the book of Revelation, Jesus pbuh returns to kill all those who refuse to obey God's Messenger, Luke 19:27 "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me."


Faithofchristian said:
Surah 8:12 " I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every finger tips of them"
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And that's what the Angels did in battle against the Polytheists. The verse had nothing to do with the people of the book, though they would have met the same fate had they sided with the Pagans.


Faithofchristian said:
Let's see Christians do not believe in Allah or Muhammad, so Surah 8:12 said to strike off their heads and strike off their finger tips.
If you strike off someone head, You will kill them.
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Well don't count Jesus of Nazareth amongst 'Christians' He prayed with his head on the ground, was circumcised, refrained from eating pork or drinking strong drink and called his God, Allah swt. He also fully submitted his will to Allah, and in Arabic the word for one who does that is MUSLIM.

The Aramaic Bible Society translated Luke 6:40 into Hebrew as: Ein talmeed na’leh al rabbo, shekken kal adam, she’mushlam yihyeh ka rabbo. The English reads: "The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect (Mushlam, Muslim!) shall be as his master."


Faithofchristian said:
Yes this could mean anyone.
But in Surah 9:29 speaks of those People of the book, which are Christians of the book ( bible ).
It's very plain what the Q'uran will teach. To cut off people's heads that do not believe in Allah or prophet muhammad.

There is only one people of the book
( Bible ) Christians.
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Here's some context for you, starting at verse 9:28

O you who have believed, indeed the polytheists are unclean, so let them not approach al-Masjid al-Haram after this, their [final] year. And if you fear privation, Allah will enrich you from His bounty if He wills. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Wise.

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

Obviously you don't care that you brushed aside the teachings of Jesus pbuh in favour of Paul. Let's hope you mend your ways and repent before you return to Allah swt:

Matthew 7:21-23 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’…
 
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