Could a Supernova be the creation of other worlds by God?

[AdamjEdgar]

I am not sure which forum to post this topic in, it needs answers from a christian perspective but also from scientific perspective. As bible is my first source of authority, i figure it must go in a christian forum.

Genesis 1:1 "in the beginning God created..."

Genesis 1:3 "let the be light,,,"

Genesis 1:6 "let there be an expanse,,,"

could it be that from a Christian young-earth creationist point of view (although YECism probably has nothing to do with this actually), that a supernova, rather than being viewed as a potential sinful destructive process (ie the death of a star), is actually evidence of God creating a new planet, solar system, and galaxy?

If the above were a rational supportive idea, then supernovas would be one of the greatest "new evidences" for the existence of God our creator.

I refer to the following the below quote

Since light travels a distance of one light year (about 6 trillion miles or 9 trillion kilometers) in one year, it would seem that we should only be able to see objects within a radius of 6,000 light years.1 Objects beyond that distance should not be visible, since presumably their light has not yet reached us. Yet, paradoxically, we can see galaxies whose distances have been measured to be many billions of light years away.
​

and the following articles which got me thinking about this...
Light Travel-Time Problems
Anisotropic Synchrony Convention—Distant Starlight

 

[The Hammer]

Why would A supernova be considered a sinful process?

Destruction is essential to life existing.

 

[Valjean]

Maybe they're just exploding stars.

 

[F1fan]

I am not sure which forum to post this topic in, it needs answers from a christian perspective but also from scientific perspective. As bible is my first source of authority, i figure it must go in a christian forum.

Genesis 1:1 "in the beginning God created..."

Genesis 1:3 "let the be light,,,"

Genesis 1:6 "let there be an expanse,,,"

could it be that from a Christian young-earth creationist point of view (although YECism probably has nothing to do with this actually), that a supernova, rather than being viewed as a potential sinful destructive process (ie the death of a star), is actually evidence of God creating a new planet, solar system, and galaxy?

If the above were a rational supportive idea, then supernovas would be one of the greatest "new evidences" for the existence of God our creator.

I refer to the following the below quote

Since light travels a distance of one light year (about 6 trillion miles or 9 trillion kilometers) in one year, it would seem that we should only be able to see objects within a radius of 6,000 light years.1 Objects beyond that distance should not be visible, since presumably their light has not yet reached us. Yet, paradoxically, we can see galaxies whose distances have been measured to be many billions of light years away.
​

and the following articles which got me thinking about this...
Light Travel-Time Problems
Anisotropic Synchrony Convention—Distant Starlight

Probably the Hindu god Brahma.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

It cant go in the hindu or eastern religion forum...I am a Christian and this is very much an issue that all Christians need to deal with.


Back on topic, we also have the following to consider

Horizon problem - Wikipedia

there is apparently not a universal agreement among scientists on a solution to this problem. I havent read the wikipedia article yet but it seems that the following are two possibilities
1. The most commonly accepted solution is cosmic inflation.
2. An explanation in terms of variable speed of light has also been proposed.

i see references in this article to

• Flatness problem
• Magnetic monopole

all of the above seem to suggest that in science attempting to ignore God as a creator, they are in fact stumbling across an ever increasing number of very problematic issues with a non creation theory of the origins of existence. In light of that, i am thinking supernovas may well be evidence of the ongoing creative nature of God (whether past, present or future).

I personally do not think that God has continued in his creation ambitions since the rebellion of Lucifer in heaven and the fall of man, my thought is that because of the cosmos looking upon the events surrounding the battle on this world, God is on trial. When we have earthly trials, usually all further development and ongoing activity ceases until the outcome is decided. in light of that, it is my view that up until at least the death of Christ on the cross, all further creation ceased (just my own opinion).

 

[Nimos]

I am not sure which forum to post this topic in, it needs answers from a christian perspective but also from scientific perspective. As bible is my first source of authority, i figure it must go in a christian forum.

Genesis 1:1 "in the beginning God created..."

Genesis 1:3 "let the be light,,,"

Genesis 1:6 "let there be an expanse,,,"

could it be that from a Christian young-earth creationist point of view (although YECism probably has nothing to do with this actually), that a supernova, rather than being viewed as a potential sinful destructive process (ie the death of a star), is actually evidence of God creating a new planet, solar system, and galaxy?

If the above were a rational supportive idea, then supernovas would be one of the greatest "new evidences" for the existence of God our creator.

I refer to the following articles which got me thinking about this...
Light Travel-Time Problems
Anisotropic Synchrony Convention—Distant Starlight

Not an astrophysicist so don't take this as a correct answer

but I think we have a pretty good understanding of what causes supernovas and also how and where light comes from whether its from stars or artificial means like a light bulb etc.

In the article they write this:
Fourth, and perhaps most importantly, you have assumed that the light arrived entirely by natural means. Such reasoning is no different than those who reject the resurrection of Christ because it cannot be explained by natural forces. However, God created the stars supernaturally during Creation Week (Genesis 1:14–19) and made them to give light upon earth.

Assuming that it weren't from natural means is not an explanation, because we have absolutely no evidence or observation that light has ever come from an unnatural source. We have claims as those made in the bible, which isn't verified.

But even if we run with the idea that it did in fact arrive here by some unnatural cause, the person would still have to demonstrate it, otherwise we might as well say that aliens brought it here by pushing or accelerating it. If we don't verify it, its not a useful explanation.

So before even considering that such light came here in an unnatural way, we have to first demonstrate that light can even be caused by something unnatural in the first place. And even if that were possible, we would also have to demonstrate that it was God of the bible or another God that did it.

 

[F1fan]

It cant go in the hindu or eastern religion forum...I am a Christian and this is very much an issue that all Christians need to deal with.

But Hindu theology was always more inline with science than Christian theology.

Your issue seems more an issue with the far right type of Christian, as moderate and liberal Christians are more rooted in what is true as explained by science.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

But even if we run with the idea that it did in fact arrive here by some unnatural cause, the person would still have to demonstrate it, otherwise we might as well say that aliens brought it here by pushing or accelerating it. If we don't verify it, its not a useful explanation.

So before even considering that such light came here in an unnatural way, we have to first demonstrate that light can even be caused by something unnatural in the first place. And even if that were possible, we would also have to demonstrate that it was God of the bible or another God that did it.

I have no problem with the idea that a supernova may be assumed to be an unnatural phenomenon, however, if science is to be considered something that God created and therefore used in the creation of this universe, then surely a creationist view of the universe and explanation of supernova would be that they are the observations of what God has created other than our own solar system and galaxy.

I guess what i am trying to determine are two things:
1. is the idea of supernova as a creation event theologically consistent and harmonious with biblical themes and interpretations?
2. scientifically are supernovas considered an event whereby a new planet, solar system, galaxy come into existence?

 

[Nimos]

I have no problem with the idea that a supernova may be assumed to be an unnatural phenomenon, however, if science is to be considered something that God created and therefore used in the creation of this universe, then surely a creationist view of the universe and explanation of supernova would be that they are the observations of what God has created other than our own solar system and galaxy.

I guess what i am trying to determine are two things:
1. is the idea of supernova as a creation event theologically consistent and harmonious with biblical themes and interpretations?
2. scientifically are supernovas considered an event whereby a new planet.solar system, galaxy come into existence?

I don't know, but I would probably think it wasn't, if it was me personally due to these reasons.

To question (1), it doesn't seem to fit, which is mostly because the biblical account is not in the correct order scientifically. Also it is commonly understood that God created everything. And a supernova is the death of something, it doesn't explode and then create something like Earth in that sense as it is talked about in the bible.

Following up on (2), a supernova is a star that collapses, so it has already been formed and lived and then dies. And obviously at some point it might become part of another creation, I have no clue to be honest. But in that case, the bible would have to mean that first there were a sun and then it exploded and from that God created the Earth. It seems to me to be a bit of a stretch.

 

[Aupmanyav]

@AdamjEdgar , have you read the Wikipedia article on Supernovas: Supernova - Wikipedia and
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddar...to-probe-cosmic-secrets-using-exploding-stars

This illustration shows a white dwarf accreting matter from a companion star. Once the white dwarf reaches a specific mass tipping point, it explodes as a type Ia supernova. Credit: NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center Conceptual Image Lab.

 

[blü 2]

I am not sure which forum to post this topic in, it needs answers from a christian perspective but also from scientific perspective. As bible is my first source of authority, i figure it must go in a christian forum.

Genesis 1:1 "in the beginning God created..."

Genesis 1:3 "let the be light,,,"

Genesis 1:6 "let there be an expanse,,,"

could it be that from a Christian young-earth creationist point of view (although YECism probably has nothing to do with this actually), that a supernova, rather than being viewed as a potential sinful destructive process (ie the death of a star), is actually evidence of God creating a new planet, solar system, and galaxy?

If the above were a rational supportive idea, then supernovas would be one of the greatest "new evidences" for the existence of God our creator.

I refer to the following the below quote

Since light travels a distance of one light year (about 6 trillion miles or 9 trillion kilometers) in one year, it would seem that we should only be able to see objects within a radius of 6,000 light years.1 Objects beyond that distance should not be visible, since presumably their light has not yet reached us. Yet, paradoxically, we can see galaxies whose distances have been measured to be many billions of light years away.
​

and the following articles which got me thinking about this...
Light Travel-Time Problems
Anisotropic Synchrony Convention—Distant Starlight

A link to Answers in Genesis?

Seriously?

 

[AdamjEdgar]

@ blu2...It goes far beyond answers in Genesis. I find it interesting that there are those who do not even have degrees in any of the fields discussed should listen to wives' tales in discrediting that group. They have a number of very well-educated scholars who contribute to that organization's ministry. So i have no problem with what they do (no one else is doing it which is a tragedy)

I don't know why you would even respond...you are a self-proclaimed religious skeptic...i would question whether or not you even have a deep understanding of theology and why this issue is so important.

the issue with the NASA video and many scientific explanations are that as far as I am aware, none of these have been actually viewed by us as how the supernova event occurs. It is just assumed that is what happens, however, what if in fact it was not correct?

What if, what we percive as an exploding star is not actually that, but an observation of Gods creation process?

For example, we (ie creationists and evolutionists) agree that the universe started from a singularity. There is no complaint about this as far as i know. So that being the case, it is simply a matter of arguing over the nature of how the event occured and what started it.

Now for me as a Christian, the supernova debate has been a point of difficulty. We cannot simply explain away this topic...its not an option to ignore it either. Therefore, we as creationists need to develop a consistent and logical solution that is using first and foremost the biblical model as our authority.

So my thought at this moment is that a supernova is an observation of Gods physical, very hands on and personal, creation event for another planet, solar system, galaxy...another world like our own. The only caveat for me is that, due to the cosmic battle after the revolt of Lucifer and the fall of man, God is on trial...therefore i do not think he has continued to create until this court case is complete. My belief is that would have reached its obvious outcome at the crucifixion of Jesus on the cross. I think at that point, the outcome is beyond doubt...so God may well have restarted his creation habits after A.D 33 (give or take a coupld of years). So the supernovas we see i should imagine are mostly long distant past creation events.

Please note, I am a Young Earth Creationist. I am not scientific, i do not believe science has any authority over the bible, and i most certainly am not a theistic evolutionist. I am fundamentally opposed to all forms of theistic evolutionary doctrine...to me they are basing their belief structure on secular science philosophy.

My view is that even though they (TE's) make the claim its just science, the interpretations used to develop scientific hypotheses and theories are absolutely not religious, they are made from a perspective that there is no God! To use such things as authoritative as a Christian is devistating for biblical inerrancy...anyone who makes such a claim as the bible has errors, may as well then throw God out the window!

 

[We Never Know]

Maybe they're just exploding stars.

Or they could be the destroyer of worlds. When our star(sun) goes supernova,,, its goodbye earth.

 

[F1fan]

@ blu2...It goes far beyond answers in Genesis. I find it interesting that there are those who do not even have degrees in any of the fields discussed should listen to wives' tales in discrediting that group. They have a number of very well-educated scholars who contribute to that organization's ministry. So i have no problem with what they do (no one else is doing it which is a tragedy)

I don't know why you would even respond...you are a self-proclaimed religious skeptic...i would question whether or not you even have a deep understanding of theology and why this issue is so important.

the issue with the NASA video and many scientific explanations are that as far as I am aware, none of these have been actually viewed by us as how the supernova event occurs. It is just assumed that is what happens, however, what if in fact it was not correct?

What if, what we percive as an exploding star is not actually that, but an observation of Gods creation process?

For example, we (ie creationists and evolutionists) agree that the universe started from a singularity. There is no complaint about this as far as i know. So that being the case, it is simply a matter of arguing over the nature of how the event occured and what started it.

Now for me as a Christian, the supernova debate has been a point of difficulty. We cannot simply explain away this topic...its not an option to ignore it either. Therefore, we as creationists need to develop a consistent and logical solution that is using first and foremost the biblical model as our authority.

So my thought at this moment is that a supernova is an observation of Gods physical, very hands on and personal, creation event for another planet, solar system, galaxy...another world like our own. The only caveat for me is that, due to the cosmic battle after the revolt of Lucifer and the fall of man, God is on trial...therefore i do not think he has continued to create until this court case is complete. My belief is that would have reached its obvious outcome at the crucifixion of Jesus on the cross. I think at that point, the outcome is beyond doubt...so God may well have restarted his creation habits after A.D 33 (give or take a coupld of years).

Please note, I am a Young Earth Creationist. I am not scientific, i do not believe science has any authority over the bible, and i most certainly am not a theistic evolutionist. I am fundamentally opposed to all forms of theistic evolutionary doctrine...to me they are basing their belief structure on secular science philosophy.

My view is that even though they (TE's) make the claim its just science, the interpretations used to develop scientific hypotheses and theories are absolutely not religious, they are made from a perspective that there is no God! To use such things as authoritative as a Christian is devistating for biblical inerrancy...anyone who makes such a claim as the bible has errors, may as well then throw God out the window!

It sounds as if you are trying to find some sort of religious meaning and significance in what we observe happening in nature. The dilemma is trying to withdraw some meaning from what is observed that isn't itself observed means it is coming from somewhere else, and that must mean human imagination is invested first. Believers who see God in the universe are guilty of putting it there. If you disagree feel free to demonstrate any God exists outside of human imagination.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

It sounds as if you are trying to find some sort of religious meaning and significance in what we observe happening in nature. The dilemma is trying to withdraw some meaning from what is observed that isn't itself observed means it is coming from somewhere else, and that must mean human imagination is invested first. Believers who see God in the universe are guilty of putting it there.

unfortunately, unless one is of a faith that follows the biblical model, one is asking me to recite Christian bible doctrine to them. This is a pointless exercise...you need to do that for yourself. If you do not believe in Christianity, how can you possibly answer this question if you have not personally invested in biblical study and gained a deep knowledge and belief in the Christian theology at stake here?

This is very much a Christian dilemma...not an eastern religion one. It is a question about the importance of sound biblical doctrine and reconciling that doctrine with the bible account and what it claimed by modern science. It is only in more recent years that Christian scientists have attempted to really knuckle down on these issues and research them. In doing so, groups such as AIG have found and exposed some significant scientific issues with the very science that secular and theistic evolutionists are using to explain their reality.

One point of contention is that of supernovas. Usually it is looked at from a perspective of discrediting young-earth creationism, however, I now see that perhaps the focus is wrong. If a supernova is actually a visual observance of a creation event of other worlds like our own, then suddenly, we are watching God in action creating new worlds in the past!

If true, then supernovas are our gateway to a mighty, omniscient, eternal God creating new worlds in times past, long before our own (hundreds of thousands, millions, even billions of years before our own).

 

[Valjean]

I am not sure which forum to post this topic in, it needs answers from a christian perspective but also from scientific perspective. As bible is my first source of authority, i figure it must go in a christian forum.

This is a scientific question, not a religious one. It deals with atomic physics and demonstrable facts, not values, purpose or morality.

If you want the correct answer, go back to your physics or astronomy textbooks. If, for some reason, you want to fit an ordinary, natural phenomenon into a mythological world-view, then there are probably several religious mythologies to choose from.

 

[Valjean]

I have no problem with the idea that a supernova may be assumed to be an unnatural phenomenon, however, if science is to be considered something that God created and therefore used in the creation of this universe, then surely a creationist view of the universe and explanation of supernova would be that they are the observations of what God has created other than our own solar system and galaxy.

If you want to attribute all of science (knowledge) to God, then everything is guided by the hand of God: water running downhill or freezing, volcanoes, rainstorms, fire or rust, relativity, floods, &al. It's all magic.
This is fantasy, of course. The ordinary laws of physics or chemistry explain it all. We know what causes earthquakes, rain -- and novae. No divine magic is necessary.

 

[Valjean]

Or they could be the destroyer of worlds. When our star(sun) goes supernova,,, its goodbye earth.

I think Earth will be pretty much toast long before any nova. The ageing Sun's natural expansion will take care of that.
Of course, we're likely to destroy ourselves long before any natural phenomenon does, with pollution, war, climate change, resource depletion and species extinction.

 

[ChristineM]

@AdamjEdgar

A supernova is the death of massive star. Stars evolve and eventually they all die, the smaller ones with a wimper the biggest with a bang.

Pressure waves from the explosion can trigger the formation of new stars from interstellar eliments.

In this way our own sun is a 3rd generation star

This is a natural observed process, no god needed.

 

[F1fan]

unfortunately, unless one is of a faith that follows the biblical model, one is asking me to recite Christian bible doctrine to them. This is a pointless exercise...you need to do that for yourself. If you do not believe in Christianity, how can you possibly answer this question if you have not personally invested in biblical study and gained a deep knowledge and belief in the Christian theology at stake here?

Because I don't accept the claims made by Christians, nor accept the assumptions Christians make when I think. I have intellectual authority and assign no meaning to the ideas of God by any theist. Christians like yourself are dealing with implausible ideas, not facts. So rational thinkers have no obligation to accept them.

This is very much a Christian dilemma...not an eastern religion one.

That's bad luck for Christianity.

It is a question about the importance of sound biblical doctrine and reconciling that doctrine with the bible account and what it claimed by modern science. It is only in more recent years that Christian scientists have attempted to really knuckle down on these issues and research them. In doing so, groups such as AIG have found and exposed some significant scientific issues with the very science that secular and theistic evolutionists are using to explain their reality.

Religious ideas are irrelevant to science since they have no factual basis.

One point of contention is that of supernovas. Usually it is looked at from a perspective of discrediting young-earth creationism, however, I now see that perhaps the focus is wrong. If a supernova is actually a visual observance of a creation event of other worlds like our own, then suddenly, we are watching God in action creating new worlds in the past!

Creationism isn't a valid proposition since much of it assumes ideas that aren't factual. and YEC denies many facts, so it even less plausible.

If true, then supernovas are our gateway to a mighty, omniscient, eternal God creating new worlds in times past, long before our own (hundreds of thousands, millions, even billions of years before our own).

There are no facts or data that suggests it is true. You offer none, just religious assumption, so we throw it out.