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Corporal punishment

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Times, they are a-changing. The wiki article shows when various countries abolished it completely

How about you personally?
Inflict physical pain is no problem

BUT

Only if it is well explained and not too hard


To prove this ask your best free teacher
The Cat:
a) Annoy her, she slaps you on the wrist, no nails

You crossed the line, hence correction was needed. Now you know that cat is serious, so you don't do it again

b) Not listening...slap on the wrist nails used

c) Not taking her serious, and really messing with her, that will get you the full treatment... a full blown "cat-attack". Claws in your face, teeth too + added audio


There is nothing wrong with this educational Cat-lesson.

Physical punishment to educate, in proportion of course, is "100" times better than emotional punishment (brainwashing) and "1000" times better than Spiritual punishment (Christians telling others "you go to Hell, God will punish you")

And that it's better is a Scientifically proven fact

@stvdvRF
 
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Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Physical punishment to educate, in proportion of course, is "100" times better than emotional punishment (brainwashing) and "1000" times better than Spiritual punishment (Christians telling others "you go to Hell, God will punish you")

And that it's better is a Scientifically proven fact
That is incorrect.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Times, they are a-changing. The wiki article shows when various countries abolished it completely. What is your religion's take on it? What about your country? How about you personally?

Corporal punishment - Wikipedia

What happens with this kind of thing today is that most of it is just arbitrary. We just dream up things. This is good, this is bad, this is mundane, but there is no real science behind them. No study. We just bring them out from thin air. Sometimes it's just a superiority factor. We don;'t do that, but you do, so we are superior by default. Why? Because I feel like it. And some times I feel the others around me also feel like it. So we are superior and I am part of it. ;)

There are people who have done Phd's in criminology or what ever related subjects who based on their studies say flogging is a valid punishment and is worth it. Peter Moskos wrote a book on flogging but particularly related to the United States.

I don't know either way, which one is better or moral or what ever we like to apply to it as a feel good factor. If there is any research with some kind of quantitative testing that might play a major role in this discussion. THank you.
 
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Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
There are people who have done Phd's in criminology or what ever related subjects who based on their studies say flogging is a valid punishment and is worth it. Peter Moskos wrote a book on flogging but particularly related to the United States.
And then Tom, Sally, Dick and Jane have studies that show flogging is ineffective.
That is how science works, not what Peter finds and what Sally pulls out of the air and what Steve dreams of and it's all valid.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
And then Tom, Sally, Dick and Jane have studies that show flogging is ineffective.
That is how science works, not what Peter finds and what Sally pulls out of the air and what Steve dreams of and it's all valid.

That's great. Thank you.

Please give me the author and the book that you have read. What kind of study is that? I will take a read.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
I've read a degrees worth of psych books.

I respect that you have read so many books. That's great.

I am asking since you mentioned books like the one I mentioned with the authors name and topic, why not give the direct name of the book and the methodology so that one could read up?
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
I'm not at all insensitive. I understand all too well how spoiling a child messes up their life.
You seem to be under the false impression that violence is the only form of correction.
corporal_punishment_chart.png

from https://www.naturalchild.org/articles/research/corporal_punishment.html

The effect of using violence to a child as a tool to get what you want is that they learn that violence is an option.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I respect that you have read so many books. That's great.

I am asking since you mentioned books like the one I mentioned with the authors name and topic, why not give the direct name of the book and the methodology so that one could read up?
Because I don't remember them. It's been awhile since I got my degree.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Hindu law books are not relevant and out-dated by at least a millennium. These are my personal views because of my up-bringing and life experience.
At the moment we go by Indian laws. I give below (1) my reaction to them, and then (2) the Indian law today as far as I know.

Corporal punishment in the home:
Allowed within strict limits. * Indian law says it is cruelty.
School corporal punishment: Not allowed. * Indian law says it is cruelty.
Judicial corporal punishment: Would not mind. * Indian law does not have any such provision. Judiciary can punish by death, imprisonment or/and fine.
Prison corporal punishment or disciplinary corporal punishment: Would not mind if it is within limits. * Indian law does not allow it.
Military corporal punishment: Would not mind if it is used to ferret information. * Indian law does not allow it.
 
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Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Aside from the studies that seem to show that physical punishment of children isn't that effective and might produce more harm than it cures, the following might suggest another result - give that authoritarian parents are probably more likely to physically chastise their children:

Children whose parents lack warmth more likely to grow up obese, study finds

UK data shows authoritarian or neglectful parenting linked to higher weight in children and adolescents.
 
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Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Inflict physical pain is no problem

BUT

Only if it is well explained and not too hard


To prove this ask your best free teacher
The Cat:
a) Annoy her, she slaps you on the wrist, no nails

You crossed the line, hence correction was needed. Now you know that cat is serious, so you don't do it again

b) Not listening...slap on the wrist nails used

c) Not taking her serious, and really messing with her, that will get you the full treatment... a full blown "cat-attack". Claws in your face, teeth too + added audio


There is nothing wrong with this educational Cat-lesson.

Physical punishment to educate, in proportion of course, is "100" times better than emotional punishment (brainwashing) and "1000" times better than Spiritual punishment (Christians telling others "you go to Hell, God will punish you")

And that it's better is a Scientifically proven fact

@stvdvRF
Not sure what else a cat could try.
However we are not cats. we have better options.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Times, they are a-changing. The wiki article shows when various countries abolished it completely. What is your religion's take on it? What about your country? How about you personally?

Corporal punishment - Wikipedia

I don’t think I know of any stories in Hindu literature sanctioning physical punishment. Except when the gods kill someone or open a can of whoop-*** on ‘em, but then hoo-boy! you’d have it coming! :D There is, however condemnation of corporal punishment in the general principle of ahimsā, non-injury.

In modern times I think corporal punishment for the most part is disgusting. I see no benefit of whipping the crap out of an adult by any means. I think it only serves the purpose of setting up a plan of revenge.

As far as for a child I really don’t think an occasional crack across the chops or a shot in the shorts is all that bad. There are times it’s a wake-up call to the child. I’ve gotten them when I was out of line, and frankly I deserved it. If we’re talking about the threats of regular beatings to keep a child in line, that too is disgusting.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Yes, times are changing. Sadly, as another poster said, I was too late to gain the parenting knowledge I now have, and did spank my children a couple of times. But it never worked, and I felt guilty. It took some very difficult prayaschitta to overcome a portion of that guilt, and I still carry some. That's another long term side effect of it. Besides the poor victim the perpetrator has to live with it, and if you believe in karma as I do, will be meted out the same.
That's a great point that hadn't really occurred to me before - how it affects the parents as well.
I'm sorry you carry that guilt around, but all we can do is the best we can, and live and learn and try to grow along the way. It sounds like that's exactly what you're doing. :)
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
So, as I explained to my children, if you lie to a policeman, jail time means a jailer that has no love for you - but that I loved him. That if he/she is in a problem, I need to know that they are telling me the truth to be able to help him/her (the boy that cried wolf too many times).

What else did I use it for? Good question... 50 years ago.... and not used very often.

If memory serves me correctly... blatant defiance and disrespect

Didn't spank in the double digits age.

We had good communication. Daddy walks were always helpful.
Aside from the hitting stuff, "Daddy walks" sounds pretty cool.
And I'm with you on the communication part.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
You seem to be under the false impression that violence is the only form of correction.
corporal_punishment_chart.png

from https://www.naturalchild.org/articles/research/corporal_punishment.html

The effect of using violence to a child as a tool to get what you want is that they learn that violence is an option.

So most of the professionals are either rarely or moderately punished which means some form of punishment is good as long as they are either rarely or moderately administered rather than never or severely.
 
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