Coronavirus: Do some religious people have their heads in the sand?

[Shadow Wolf]

I mean...there are a lot of vital things people are being forced to give up. Should religion get special dispensation?

I am of the opinion that god will surely understand. If it doesn't, it's not a god.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

"Some churches", no. It depends on the theology of the church. I do respect people who go by the theology of their church even though I may or may not disagree with the justification behind it.

So...if it depends on the theology of the church, doesn't that mean 'some churches'?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

So...if it depends on the theology of the church, doesn't that mean 'some churches'?

Only those churches whose theology support their faith over earth life. I only heard of two religions like that. I know some Christians speak of it but don't know how much they love god at the expense of another person's life.

I honestly forgot the theme of these questions. I'd have to back track. My church theology would not do such thing as per our tenants doesn't seperate spiritual over physical. Some churches do. I don't agree but I can't change their theology to match my opinions.

 

[stvdv]

Maybe the full quote will help you understand what Baha'u'llah meant. Context always helps.

“This is the Day in which God’s most excellent favors have been poured out upon men, the Day in which His most mighty grace hath been infused into all created things. It is incumbent upon all the peoples of the world to reconcile their differences, and, with perfect unity and peace, abide beneath the shadow of the Tree of His care and loving-kindness. It behoveth them to cleave to whatsoever will, in this Day, be conducive to the exaltation of their stations, and to the promotion of their best interests. Happy are those whom the all-glorious Pen was moved to remember, and blessed are those men whose names, by virtue of Our inscrutable decree, We have preferred to conceal.

Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 6-7

This coronavirus pandemic is part of the rolling up process. The world will never be the same again. Some people believe that when this blows over things will return to the way they were before but Baha'is know they won't.

Thank you for the context. Is always good to know. In this case, it does not change what I initially thought. I also believe Corona is part of the process, but I do see a different process. Time will tell who was right

And now about "have people their heads in the sand"? Below is what I see happening (Disclaimer: just my opinion)

I believe the "elite" (very rich 1%) will use this Corona virus pandemic, to create even a bigger gap between the 1% very extreme rich and the poor. They will not share their wealth with all the people losing their jobs/income, thereby losing maybe even their pension and what not.

Maybe a bit negative, but I have seen this trick of the "elite" going on for the past 2 decades. Since internet, they can check every human their income with 1 push on the right button; China took it one step further, they now are almost ready with their "Big Brother is watching your every move". Every year the "elite" creates or uses a disaster (before it was "economy/climate gets worse"), so they have an opportunity to make the people pay or give money to plant trees for climate change or what not. And a few years ago, with one such crisis, pension funds and banks were having such a hard time, all the newspapers tried to brainwash us, the good gullible people, with. I did not buy that BS.

And voila, 6 month later, suddenly I read in the newspapers. Economy is up again, banks made 6 billion dollars profit (just 1 Dutch bank). I was not really surprised, neither was I surprised that they did not return the money to the people who gave it to them. We, the people in Holland gave together 6 billion to the banks, and other "elite" members. This has been so obvious to me, that I am surprised there still is no civil war. But I can understand. We live in a very individualistic world, created by the "elite", as this is the best and easiest for the "elite" to control. Nothing to fear for the elite, because individuals are so easy to scare, and indiviuals, being full of fear, are so easy to control and to manipulate.

So, my "prophecy" will be, that, after Corona, they will come up with a new surprise, and I won't be surprised. The 1% very (criminally) rich, they will get more rich, and the poor will get more poor. That game has been going on for centuries, and will not suddenly stop. There is 1 chance, that this will change, and that is, when the "elite" squeezes us just too much, and a civil war starts, then maybe those narcissists can be stopped. Never a narcissist (and all "elite" are narcissists IMHO) will stop the money flow towards him voluntary. But, I also believe, that the "elite" will not allow this to happen, they will use police force, drones (or even nukes) to stay in control.

But, I do believe in Karma, that the good will win in the end. So 1 day, we might get "the Golden Age", but I won't hold my breath.
My Master said "the Golden Age has started now", but I know His Teaching "You can live in Heaven NOW, no need to wait till you die".

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

the continuance and advancement of life on earth.

Dear Trailblazer,

You speak of quite a few different things in this post but I paused at quoted sentence because I often wonder; where does this concept come from, that the continuation - and, especially the advancement - of incarnated life be at the centre of faith?

Does faith not mainly deal with spirit?

The thing about spiritual work, is that the only visible part is its results. The process is easily missed. To an onlooker, it may seem as if they are burying their heads in the sand and though some possibly do, one cannot know that for certain.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I think people use the term "need" or "vital" far too glibly. If ANYTHING religious were truly "vital," then I should be dead. You waste the core essence of the word "need" or "vital" when you pin it on anything at all religious. There may be people who subjectively view their attendance, or the social opportunities that church services provide them as "vital" - but that is an entirely subjective assessment, and anyone with half a brain cell could instantaneously come to the conclusion when pressed that religious services do not, in any way, provide some basic "need" that is directly linked to survival. You may be able to twist and turn, and come to some completely indirect way that these things provide something essential for survival - like saying that human contact for some people is only gotten by these means, and those people might otherwise experience severe depression that affects their health negatively. But the reality is, the direct cause of their failing health is the depression... NOT lack of church services.

 

[PearlSeeker]

CoronaVirus #19, is being way over blown. However, I do understand that many people are under the influence of fear and cannot help but be sucked into the irrationality of the herd panic.

The Corona Virus is real, but the fear is being amplified, beyond rational proportion, by fake news hype. One way to prove this is to look back at the Swine Flu pandemic from 2008 through 2009.

In the USA there were 60 million confirmed cases of the swine flu, with 300,000 cases requiring hospitalization. The death toll was about 15,000 in the USA. World wide there were about 1 billion cases and about 400,000 deaths.

The Corona Virus currently has 300,000 cases world wide, and about 14,000 deaths. Less scary on paper has been hyped to appear even more scary that the swine flu. Why is that and how is this possible?

The main difference was the swine flu was not hyped by mainstream media, fighting for audience share, because there was a Democrat president in office, named Obama, who the mainstream media gave 93% positive reinforcement. Although swine flu was worse in terms of reality, the lack of continuous negative doom and gloom hype coverage, did not lead to the same levels of mass irrational panic. Number reporting, alone did not create mass panic. There were no shut downs, isolations, restrictions on travel by the Obama Administration. These would be misread and create panic. We were played then and now; under reaction and now overreaction.

The name Swine flu sounded like little pigs running around with a cough. This was not too scary so people could accept the yearly dearth tool from the flu. COVID19 sounds more scientific and serious. If we had called it common cold virus number 19, which it is, less panic would occur. But Democrats controlled fake news wants the hype and panic so it can sell soap and also undermine Trump before the election.

Since Trump has been in office, main stream media and fake news has given him 90% negativity. The Democrats leaders are very cold and calculating and do not allow a good tragedy go to waste. There has been constant negative news designed to create panic for something far less than Obama and Democrats tried to disguise in 2009.

I bet every person who was fooled by the Russian collusions delusion, also fell for this exaggeration. If Biden had been in charge, the media would have played down the story and the mass panic would have be avoided. All you would have to do is compare this to the swine flu and people would understand.

Luckily, the fake news propaganda wing of the Democrat party may win the battle, but they will lose the war. This faux panic is going to undermine the issues of open borders and globalism, since pandemics of the future would be far worse under open travel conditions. Also having China controlling the medicine chain will be seen as a national security threat so there will be push for made in the USA. These anticipated changes will assure a Trump victory in 2020.

One interesting synchronicity is the Corona Virus Panic attack, is coordinating with the Christian Holy season of Lent. The world is making a 40 day sacrifice, like is usually expected only of devout Christians.

It's not herd panic. Statistics say nothing if misinterpreted. You can't just compare the deaths for different spans. Listen to professional public not politicians.

"Swine flu" fatality rate was quite low (about five times lower than the seasonal flu). Coronavirus is much deadlier.

 

[stvdv]

Yes it’s a very insightful statement by Baha’u’llah with regard to present circumstances. It’s as if this virus is by itself forcing the world to roll up and close down the current order which they would never do voluntarily.

Problems and a war could erupt when the nations compete for which system will be the new one to be spread out. The west will insist it be democratic, other countries will want an Islamic based order and Russia and China will want a different system.

Each nation has used ‘proxy wars’ to try and get its system adopted worldwide. American bases and things like puppet regimes and Arab Spring, Soviet Union, and Chinese expansion and domination in Asia but none of these countries has been able to establish their systems universally and each doesn’t like its affairs being dictated to by the other systems.

China, Russia - Communist , Iran (Islamic System) and the USA - democracy all want world domination of their system and beliefs.

I believe that we are heading or being dragged kicking and screaming in my view towards world peace because it’s what’s best for all humanity and been put off because arms sales and wars have been so profitable for the rich and wealthy. It’s what’s best for the poor and oppressed who have suffered silently for so long under this system without reprieve or relief. And the time has come to help these people I believe and so it’s happening- the collapse of this corrupt, unjust system to be replaced with one that cares for all humanity not just the rich.

“The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-encompassing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men. Baha’u’llah)

Thanks loverofhumanity,

Yes, that would be nice. And for sure this "elite" owning 1% of all the money, will be kicking and screaming, to let that go. Maybe when the poor and oppressed stop suffering silently, that it will change. When the slaves finally stood up, things started to change. So, it's about time, that the majority stop accepting what the "elite" dictates. Because I can not believe, that the "elite" will give up of themselves.

At least many people start talking about "soon it will change". That might be an expression of their gut-feeling "enough is enough". It's not for nothing that now are these conspiracy theories. Normally I am not that interested in them, but seeing what is happening worldwide, I clearly see more and more the "devilish" game these so called "elite" are playing. And I believe in the Universal Law of Karma. Action generates Reaction, and Truth and Dharma will win, I believe. So, in the end this Adharma of the "elite" will be destroyed. But it might be with a big war, they won't give up easily.

I would not even be surprised, if the past few years of Viruses is done by "elite" to scare the **** out of people, so that they can establish their power again. Because scared people are more gullible and easier to control. Promise them some Golden Mountains, and they will vote for you.

I just saw a YouTube, of an army man, who thinks he figured it out, when World War 3 will start, by looking at history. He found a pattern, he claims. Everything in the Universe seems to follow a pattern, so he might be right, I won't be surprised. I hope he is wrong, because WW3 will be horrible.

"“The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-encompassing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men. Baha’u’llah)"

Seeing a picture like below, does give me hope, that what Baha'u'llah said will actually happen one day.

Pope's anti-slavery initiative gets new support from Hindu, Buddhist, Jews and Muslims

 

[GoodbyeDave]

At least, at a time when the whole world is passing through a difficult phase, you cannot still stop blaring your Bahai trumpet?

Yes, it's tiresome when the Bahai cannot resist trying to convert us all. But the point embedded in his post is that many Christians, mostly in the USA, are responding stupidly:
Hobby Lobby Open Amid Coronavirus: God Will Keep Workers Safe | Heavy.com
Trump’s Megachurch Allies Promise COVID-19 Snake Oil and ‘Miracles’

 

[Trailblazer]

So, my "prophecy" will be, that, after Corona, they will come up with a new surprise, and I won't be surprised. The 1% very (criminally) rich, they will get more rich, and the poor will get more poor. That game has been going on for centuries, and will not suddenly stop.

What do you think will cause that to happen?
Do you think that the market will go back up and go even higher, as president Trump said?
I am not very well-versed in economics.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Hi stvdv. Keep well and safe. Education and proper information is a very important service we can all,offer each other and those we meet.

We should listen to the experts, which are the scientists and doctors that are on the front line of the fight against such viruses.

Personal hygiene is our biggest material weapon against this virus. Trust in God gives us a healthy balance of mind in these difficult circumstances.

All the best to you, your other half and community David.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

You speak of quite a few different things in this post but I paused at quoted sentence because I often wonder; where does this concept come from, that the continuation - and, especially the advancement - of incarnated life be at the centre of faith?

Does faith not mainly deal with spirit?

Faith does mainly deal with spiritual things, but humans also have to live life on earth, so that is why I said: "According to my religion, science is just as important as religion and absolutely necessary for the continuance and advancement of life on earth." I was referring to material advancement, not spiritual advancement.

The thing about spiritual work, is that the only visible part is its results. The process is easily missed.

I fully agree. Nobody can see into another heart and sometimes results are not visible in behavior. Only God knows anyone's spiritual state, since God is closer to us than we are to ourselves.

To an onlooker, it may seem as if they are burying their heads in the sand and though some possibly do, one cannot know that for certain.

I fully agree. One cannot know how people feel or what they are thinking just from a few outward behaviors. They would have to have a conversation.

 

[1213]

Explain Italy!
...

By what I know, in Italy, about average 17000 per year die to influenza. Now, I don’t know the statistics for that for 2019-2020, but it may be just so that this year not as many has died to influenza, but some of those who could have died to it, have instead died to this China flu. It appears that it is bad for the elderly people, who also die often to common influenza and there really seems to be no reason to panic, even though death is always sad thing.

And by the way I am really disappointed that this place has so strict censorship. So, don’t wonder if you don’t always get answers, or if you see only anti-Christian point of view here.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

By what I know, in Italy, about average 17000 per year die to influenza. Now, I don’t know the statistics for that for 2019-2020, but it may be just so that this year not as many has died to influenza, but some of those who could have died to it, have instead died to this China flu. It appears that it is bad for the elderly people, who also die often to common influenza and there really seems to be no reason to panic, even though death is always sad thing.

And by the way I am really disappointed that this place has so strict censorship. So, don’t wonder if you don’t always get answers, or if you see only anti-Christian point of view here.

It is not that simple.
The problem is that with enough resources for a limited time, the death total would not be the same. Further because of the breakdown in health care other people has also died, because of the breakdown in health care resources. That is why they try to flatten the curve. A strong spike in a short time means more death for the same number of infected than for a drawn out flatten curve.

Regards
Mikkel

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, it's tiresome when the Bahai cannot resist trying to convert us all. But the point embedded in his post is that many Christians, mostly in the USA, are responding stupidly:

Bahais too have a miracle under their sleeve. The whole world will unite under the banner of Bahai religion and the Iranian preacher of 19th Century, Bahaollah. Then also, it will be Allah who would relieve us of the problems. You will have to worship their Allah. So what is the heck is the difference? Substituting one God or Allah for another?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Bahais too have a miracle under their sleeve. The whole world will unite under the banner of Bahai religion and the Iranian preacher of 19th Century, Bahaollah. Then also, it will be Allah who would relieve us of the problems. You will have to worship their Allah. So what is the heck is the difference? Substituting one God or Allah for another?

Not at all! Things are the way they are and will stay the way they are as long as people want it to. No one has to change their belief or tradition in any way. People always have freedom of belief and always will.

The kind of thing you talk about cannot ever happen unless people themselves choose it. It is entirely up to people what they want to be and believe.

 

[stvdv]

this does not seem like a time to be celebrating.

There is no time like the present

You have 2 options:
To celebrate or NOT to celebrate

You know the answer, don't you?

 

[stvdv]

this does not seem like a time to be celebrating.

Coronavirus: Do some religious people have their heads in the sand?

Better to have your head in the sand than to have sand in your head

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

There is no time like the present

You have 2 options:
To celebrate or NOT to celebrate

You know the answer, don't you?

It could be the fallacy of the excluded middle. These binary choices leave out if there are other choices. Or indeed if to celebrate is just one "thing".

Regards
Mikkel

 

[stvdv]

There is no time like the present

You have 2 options:
To celebrate or NOT to celebrate

You know the answer, don't you?

It could be the fallacy of the excluded middle. These binary choices leave out if there are other choices. Or indeed if to celebrate is just one "thing".
Regards
Mikkel

I remember a story about 3 monks ... the laughing monks. They were always laughing ... people were wondering, how on earth is this possible.
One day 1 of the 3 monks died ... all people went to see what would happen. They were all thinking "for sure, they won't be laughing this time"

But, they were wrong, the remaining 2 brothers were laughing, even more than before
People got upset, some even got angry, and finally asked the 2 monks "why you laugh now"?
If we would not laugh now, our brother would turn around in his grave, as we still missed the point