Coronavirus: Do some religious people have their heads in the sand?

[PearlSeeker]

My comment when I heard about the Church canceling Mass therefore the Easter Vigil made me think of two different things. One. Of course, they are reacting to the seriousness of the issue. Then the other, the Easter Vigil is highly important that to skip it would (if I were Catholic) be very, how can I say, bad. As though it's hard to strike a balance between religious obligation and personal safety. I understand the justification by pushing off the Vigil but I disagree with the morality of it.

This is how my church put it:

"Why have service at all, then? Because our services are vital to many people, and individuals may have a strong need to gather in community in this fearful time. An abrupt cancellation would leave people in the lurch."

People need religious communion in times of need. I wouldn't be to hard on the churches and religious.

This was the only sensible thing to do. Support of community still continues in prayer, via messaging...

 

[Trailblazer]

To be honest, I don't see what you are complaining about. If people can't meet physically - and the people you are discussing have evidently got that message - then surely they ought to be finding on-line workarounds, shouldn't they? What else do you expect them to do?

Surely the whole object at the moment is to preserve as much as we can of normal life, under these new restrictions. Bear in mind that religions for very many people are a source of community and human warmth. These commodities are going to become precious if we are all cooped up at home while this epidemic rages. It seems to me that devoting some time now to get these going is time well-spent, before the sense of camaraderie evaporates. These communities may also do their bit to preserve altruistic social values, when the temptation may be every man for himself.

Thanks for offering that different perspective. I know I should not be complaining but there are other reasons I take issue with some of the activities of my religious group as well as personal issues I have that sometimes get triggered by them. One of those issues I have is that I cannot understand how people can celebrate when other people are suffering and I consider that selfish. To me, it shows how detached they are from the suffering of others.

 

[exchemist]

Thanks for offering that different perspective. I know I should not be complaining but there are other reasons I take issue with some of the activities of my religious group as well as personal issues I have that sometimes get triggered by them. One of those issues I have is that I cannot understand how people can celebrate when other people are suffering and I consider that selfish. To me, it shows how detached they are from the suffering of others.

OK, but they are not celebrating the suffering, presumably. I can understand if thinking about the suffering is getting you down, then you may be irritated by what may seem to be thoughtless gaiety around you. But we don't all have to share in the misery of everyone else. Our best chance of helping them climb out of it is often to offer something cheerful. It is natural and healthy to look for the bright spots in a dark situation. When there is so much you cannot control, it can be important to look for what you can control, and work on that to the best advantage.

P.S. A friend of mine invited me to a "virtual tea party" yesterday, in which each participant prepares his or her own tea and biscuits etc and then we connect on Facetime, and have a chat while we drink our tea. I was initially a bit scornful of this, but in fact it worked very well and I'm going to do it with more people while we are in this situation of compulsory isolation.

 

[Trailblazer]

I understand your frustration, but just because your religious group is not doing much, that doesn't mean they're not worried. Some of the might be terrified, but gathering in groups and praying helps them.

That is a very good point and a point well taken.

The role of a religion is not to find a cure of this or any other illness. However, having a support group in difficult times like these means everything to most people. Not everyone is the same, some do well on their own and have a more practical vision of things, but for the majority of people, feeling that they belong to a group and being emotionally supported by their peers is essential.

That is true too. I do not find solace in being part of my religious group but I do not know what I would do without RF, and I also post on other forums. They are my support. group.

I believe Jesus will return and fix everything in the future (an no, no one knows the date),

I do not believe that Jesus will return and fix everything, but that is because Baha'is believe the Christ Spirit already returned in Baha'ullah and He revealed what we will need to fix everything ourselves. It will take a long time to build the Kingdom of God on earth, but we can do it if we all work together for the good of the whole.

but while we wait, we have a moral duty to help those in need, physically and emotionally, whatever they need. We don't know how long this situation is going to last or what is going to happen after, so having a hope for the future is great, but none of us should forget about the present and just sit down and wait. Let's be kind and loving and do what we can to help those in need.

I agree, while we wait for the Kingdom of God to become a reality, we need too help those in need. We do not know how long it will take to build the Kingdom of God so we should not focus on the future but rather live in the present.

 

[Trailblazer]

This is what the President of my church had to say about this:

Thanks, that was very inspiring. Even though I am a Baha'i and my beliefs differ, I often look to Christians and Christian music as a source of inspiration. God is God, and there is only one God that we all worship.

I love Mormons. The young men who do missionary work are so polite and dedicated and respectful of my beliefs.

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you know what Bahaullah meant with that?

Maybe the full quote will help you understand what Baha'u'llah meant. Context always helps.

“This is the Day in which God’s most excellent favors have been poured out upon men, the Day in which His most mighty grace hath been infused into all created things. It is incumbent upon all the peoples of the world to reconcile their differences, and, with perfect unity and peace, abide beneath the shadow of the Tree of His care and loving-kindness. It behoveth them to cleave to whatsoever will, in this Day, be conducive to the exaltation of their stations, and to the promotion of their best interests. Happy are those whom the all-glorious Pen was moved to remember, and blessed are those men whose names, by virtue of Our inscrutable decree, We have preferred to conceal.

Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 6-7

This coronavirus pandemic is part of the rolling up process. The world will never be the same again. Some people believe that when this blows over things will return to the way they were before but Baha'is know they won't.

 

[Trailblazer]

OK, but they are not celebrating the suffering, presumably. I can understand if thinking about the suffering is getting you down, then you may be irritated by what may seem to be thoughtless gaiety around you. But we don't all have to share in the misery of everyone else. Our best chance of helping them climb out of it is often to offer something cheerful. It is natural and healthy to look for the bright spots in a dark situation. When there is so much you cannot control, it can be important to look for what you can control, and work on that to the best advantage.

P.S. A friend of mine invited me to a "virtual tea party" yesterday, in which each participant prepares his or her own tea and biscuits etc and then we connect on Facetime, and have a chat while we drink our tea. I was initially a bit scornful of this, but in fact it worked very well and I'm going to do it with more people while we are in this situation of compulsory isolation.

I appreciate that perspective. I just cannot be that way. I cannot be celebrating holy days when others are suffering.

I am hopeful though as I know the world will get through this and I believe we will all be better after this is over because the world will be more unified.

 

[wellwisher]

CoronaVirus #19, is being way over blown. However, I do understand that many people are under the influence of fear and cannot help but be sucked into the irrationality of the herd panic.

The Corona Virus is real, but the fear is being amplified, beyond rational proportion, by fake news hype. One way to prove this is to look back at the Swine Flu pandemic from 2008 through 2009.

In the USA there were 60 million confirmed cases of the swine flu, with 300,000 cases requiring hospitalization. The death toll was about 15,000 in the USA. World wide there were about 1 billion cases and about 400,000 deaths.

The Corona Virus currently has 300,000 cases world wide, and about 14,000 deaths. Less scary on paper has been hyped to appear even more scary that the swine flu. Why is that and how is this possible?

The main difference was the swine flu was not hyped by mainstream media, fighting for audience share, because there was a Democrat president in office, named Obama, who the mainstream media gave 93% positive reinforcement. Although swine flu was worse in terms of reality, the lack of continuous negative doom and gloom hype coverage, did not lead to the same levels of mass irrational panic. Number reporting, alone did not create mass panic. There were no shut downs, isolations, restrictions on travel by the Obama Administration. These would be misread and create panic. We were played then and now; under reaction and now overreaction.

The name Swine flu sounded like little pigs running around with a cough. This was not too scary so people could accept the yearly dearth tool from the flu. COVID19 sounds more scientific and serious. If we had called it common cold virus number 19, which it is, less panic would occur. But Democrats controlled fake news wants the hype and panic so it can sell soap and also undermine Trump before the election.

Since Trump has been in office, main stream media and fake news has given him 90% negativity. The Democrats leaders are very cold and calculating and do not allow a good tragedy go to waste. There has been constant negative news designed to create panic for something far less than Obama and Democrats tried to disguise in 2009.

I bet every person who was fooled by the Russian collusions delusion, also fell for this exaggeration. If Biden had been in charge, the media would have played down the story and the mass panic would have be avoided. All you would have to do is compare this to the swine flu and people would understand.

Luckily, the fake news propaganda wing of the Democrat party may win the battle, but they will lose the war. This faux panic is going to undermine the issues of open borders and globalism, since pandemics of the future would be far worse under open travel conditions. Also having China controlling the medicine chain will be seen as a national security threat so there will be push for made in the USA. These anticipated changes will assure a Trump victory in 2020.

One interesting synchronicity is the Corona Virus Panic attack, is coordinating with the Christian Holy season of Lent. The world is making a 40 day sacrifice, like is usually expected only of devout Christians.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Should there be exceptions for churches? Should people be able to go to church in mass gatherings despite not being able to go to other places and gather?

It depends on the theology of the church. My church's theology isn't sacrificial so we met online; that was fine. Some churches are sacrificial and depend on the believer to put god over everyone and even one's self. Some christians denominations do so to the point of living like jesus. Others deny medical treatments because of it. So, it depends on the nature of the church's theology and how the believers see their faith in relation to their own and their peers physical lives. It's not something I agree with; and, it makes more sense if going by the nature of a said religion and denomination.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around how serious this virus is insofar it jumps from state and country around the same time making people sick in isolated areas. In general, I'd agree with you, but going by this situation and/or theology, I can see justification the other way as well.

 

[Trailblazer]

CoronaVirus #19, is being way over blown. However, I do understand that many people are under the influence of fear and cannot help but be sucked into the irrationality of the herd panic.

The Corona Virus is real, but the fear is being amplified, beyond rational proportion, by fake news hype. One way to prove this is to look back at the Swine Flu pandemic from 2008 through 2009.

In the USA there were 60 million confirmed cases of the swine flu, with 300,000 cases requiring hospitalization. The death toll was about 15,000 in the USA. World wide there were about 1 billion cases and about 400,000 deaths.

The Corona Virus currently has 300,000 cases world wide, and about 14,000 deaths. Less scary on paper has been hyped to appear even more scary that the swine flu. Why is that and how is this possible?

The main difference was the swine flu was not hyped by mainstream media, fighting for audience share, because there was a Democrat president in office, named Obama, who the mainstream media gave 93% positive reinforcement. Although swine flu was worse in terms of reality, the lack of continuous negative doom and gloom hype coverage, did not lead to the same levels of mass irrational panic. Number reporting, alone did not create mass panic. There were no shut downs, isolations, restrictions on travel by the Obama Administration. These would be misread and create panic. We were played then and now; under reaction and now overreaction.

The name Swine flu sounded like little pigs running around with a cough. This was not too scary so people could accept the yearly dearth tool from the flu. COVID19 sounds more scientific and serious. If we had called it common cold virus number 19, which it is, less panic would occur. But Democrats controlled fake news wants the hype and panic so it can sell soap and also undermine Trump before the election.

Since Trump has been in office, main stream media and fake news has given him 90% negativity. The Democrats leaders are very cold and calculating and do not allow a good tragedy go to waste. There has been constant negative news designed to create panic for something far less than Obama and Democrats tried to disguise in 2009.

I bet every person who was fooled by the Russian collusions delusion, also fell for this exaggeration. If Biden had been in charge, the media would have played down the story and the mass panic would have be avoided. All you would have to do is compare this to the swine flu and people would understand.

Luckily, the fake news propaganda wing of the Democrat party may win the battle, but they will lose the war. This faux panic is going to undermine the issues of open borders and globalism, since pandemics of the future would be far worse under open travel conditions. Also having China controlling the medicine chain will be seen as a national security threat so there will be push for made in the USA. These anticipated changes will assure a Trump victory in 2020.

One interesting synchronicity is the Corona Virus Panic attack, is coordinating with the Christian Holy season of Lent. The world is making a 40 day sacrifice, like is usually expected only of devout Christians.

I have been saying that the media hyped this up and caused the mass hysteria from the very beginning.

If what you are saying is true, what the media has done is immoral, and that is a gross understatement. As you probably know, evil begets evil. It would serve the Dems right if Trump won the 2020 election.

Do you mind if I share your post on another forum I post on? It mostly deals with political issues, but as might be expected, all they are talking about now is the coronavirus.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

It depends on the theology of the church. My church's theology isn't sacrificial so we met online; that was fine. Some churches are sacrificial and depend on the believer to put god over everyone and even one's self. Some christians denominations do so to the point of living like jesus. Others deny medical treatments because of it. So, it depends on the nature of the church's theology and how the believers see their faith in relation to their own and their peers physical lives. It's not something I agree with; and, it makes more sense if going by the nature of a said religion and denomination.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around how serious this virus is insofar it jumps from state and country around the same time making people sick in isolated areas. In general, I'd agree with you, but going by this situation and/or theology, I can see justification the other way as well.

I understand that some believers will prioritise church gatherings over safety.
But if, as a society, we ban indoor gatherings of people, do you think some churches should have exemptions from this? And why?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I understand that some believers will prioritise church gatherings over safety.

But if, as a society, we ban indoor gatherings of people, do you think some churches should have exemptions from this? And why?

"Some churches", no. It depends on the theology of the church. I do respect people who go by the theology of their church even though I may or may not disagree with the justification behind it.

 

[Truthseeker]

CoronaVirus #19, is being way over blown. However, I do understand that many people are under the influence of fear and cannot help but be sucked into the irrationality of the herd panic.

The Corona Virus is real, but the fear is being amplified, beyond rational proportion, by fake news hype. One way to prove this is to look back at the Swine Flu pandemic from 2008 through 2009.

In the USA there were 60 million confirmed cases of the swine flu, with 300,000 cases requiring hospitalization. The death toll was about 15,000 in the USA. World wide there were about 1 billion cases and about 400,000 deaths.

The Corona Virus currently has 300,000 cases world wide, and about 14,000 deaths. Less scary on paper has been hyped to appear even more scary that the swine flu. Why is that and how is this possible?

The main difference was the swine flu was not hyped by mainstream media, fighting for audience share, because there was a Democrat president in office, named Obama, who the mainstream media gave 93% positive reinforcement. Although swine flu was worse in terms of reality, the lack of continuous negative doom and gloom hype coverage, did not lead to the same levels of mass irrational panic. Number reporting, alone did not create mass panic. There were no shut downs, isolations, restrictions on travel by the Obama Administration. These would be misread and create panic. We were played then and now; under reaction and now overreaction.

The name Swine flu sounded like little pigs running around with a cough. This was not too scary so people could accept the yearly dearth tool from the flu. COVID19 sounds more scientific and serious. If we had called it common cold virus number 19, which it is, less panic would occur. But Democrats controlled fake news wants the hype and panic so it can sell soap and also undermine Trump before the election.

Since Trump has been in office, main stream media and fake news has given him 90% negativity. The Democrats leaders are very cold and calculating and do not allow a good tragedy go to waste. There has been constant negative news designed to create panic for something far less than Obama and Democrats tried to disguise in 2009.

I bet every person who was fooled by the Russian collusions delusion, also fell for this exaggeration. If Biden had been in charge, the media would have played down the story and the mass panic would have be avoided. All you would have to do is compare this to the swine flu and people would understand.

Luckily, the fake news propaganda wing of the Democrat party may win the battle, but they will lose the war. This faux panic is going to undermine the issues of open borders and globalism, since pandemics of the future would be far worse under open travel conditions. Also having China controlling the medicine chain will be seen as a national security threat so there will be push for made in the USA. These anticipated changes will assure a Trump victory in 2020.

One interesting synchronicity is the Corona Virus Panic attack, is coordinating with the Christian Holy season of Lent. The world is making a 40 day sacrifice, like is usually expected only of devout Christians.

You are spreading propaganda created by the right wing media, which distorts facts, or hides facts. I saw a program about that on HBO yesterday. Take my advice and look at other news besides what tells you what you want to hear.

 

[Truthseeker]

I have been saying that the media hyped this up and caused the mass hysteria from the very beginning.

If what you are saying is true, what the media has done is immoral, and that is a gross understatement. As you probably know, evil begets evil. It would serve the Dems right if Trump won the 2020 election.

Do you mind if I share your post on another forum I post on? It mostly deals with political issues, but as might be expected, all they are talking about now is the coronavirus.

I don't think you should share that, it is right wing propaganda. This virus is at the very beginning, the toll will be much worse at the end of this pandemic than the swine flu. The regular media has its biases, but the right-wing media is distorting things.

 

[Milton Platt]

I have noticed that some religious people are just going about their ‘business as usual’ while the world economy is crashing and people are dying from this virus. I cannot put my finger on it, but something does not seem right about that. I mean in my religious community all they are talking about is being able to keep up with their regular activities which they are now doing online since we are not allowed to meet in groups per order of the governor.

So they have figured a ‘workaround’ whereby they can keep going on living as they always have as if nothing is even happening, and to top that off they are so happy just because they can continue to meet. I just don’t get it. All they seem to care about is having their meetings and get-togethers, including prayer meetings online, even a concert and their Naw Ruz celebration. Well, maybe I don’t get it because I am not sociable, at least not in person, only on forums, but this does not seem like a time to be celebrating.

Well, to be fair, maybe some people do not think this coronavirus pandemic is that serious. Do they have a television set? Or maybe they lost their remote control? Or maybe I am wrong and this is pandemic really no big deal? After all, it has only shut down schools and businesses across the United States and ravaged economies worldwide, not to mention all the sick and dying. But maybe it is no big deal.

I am always open to opinions from those who agree or disagree with me, or those who just have an opinion of their own.

According to the Baha’i Faith, Baha’u’llah brought the solution to the problems we are facing in the world today, the political, social and economic injustices, but not many people even know about the Baha’i Faith because all the Baha’is ever do is meet and meet and meet and meet amongst themselves. Nobody can blame Baha’u’llah for that; He brought the medicine but they are not distributing it.

Obviously a religious group is not going to cure the coronavirus. According to my religion, science is just as important as religion and absolutely necessary for the continuance and advancement of life on earth. A vaccine for the coronavirus rests solely in the hands of scientists, and treatment falls in the hands of the health care workers. I do not imagine they are sitting in meetings talking about what they are going to do, they are doing it.

So what are we going to do now, as a nation, as a world? According to Baha’u’llah we are all one people living in an interdependent world and we have to work together in service to the entire human race. The reason I became a Baha’i in the first place was because of quotes like the following, as I am an idealist, but I also have practical considerations:

“It is incumbent upon every man of insight and understanding to strive to translate that which hath been written into reality and action…. That one indeed is a man who, today, dedicateth himself to the service of the entire human race. The Great Being saith: Blessed and happy is he that ariseth to promote the best interests of the peoples and kindreds of the earth. In another passage He hath proclaimed: It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 250

Obviously I am not going to come up with any solutions on my own but at least I am concerned. How many religious people are concerned? Do they believe that God is going to fix the coronavirus pandemic and the mess the world is in, or have they even noticed there is a problem? Do they even care? From what I have seen religious people are either waiting for Jesus to return and fix everything, or if they are a member of my religion they are sitting in meetings and talking and praying. What real practical value does that have? How is that going to help people who have been economically ravaged by this pandemic, people who have no job and no money, people who lost everything in the market crash?

For me, religion is not a social club. I have no interest in affiliating with members of my religion unless they are going to talk about what really matters, according to the Writings of Baha’u’llah. But I am sure they do not want to hear from me anyway, because all I do is rock their boat. I do not call myself Trailblazer for no reason.

I don't know.....maybe we should allow them to meet but distance them from the rest of the population. They can depend on prayer and the rest of us can get vaccinated.

 

[MonkeyFire]

I'll stay behind and bury the last head with no one to bury my own head.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Do you know what Bahaullah meant with that? First thought I get is, that "the ones now in control will make place for others" ... can mean a war even. Big shifts sometimes come with major trouble (or call it cleansing).

Yes it’s a very insightful statement by Baha’u’llah with regard to present circumstances. It’s as if this virus is by itself forcing the world to roll up and close down the current order which they would never do voluntarily.

Problems and a war could erupt when the nations compete for which system will be the new one to be spread out. The west will insist it be democratic, other countries will want an Islamic based order and Russia and China will want a different system.

Each nation has used ‘proxy wars’ to try and get its system adopted worldwide. American bases and things like puppet regimes and Arab Spring, Soviet Union, and Chinese expansion and domination in Asia but none of these countries has been able to establish their systems universally and each doesn’t like its affairs being dictated to by the other systems.

China, Russia - Communist , Iran (Islamic System) and the USA - democracy all want world domination of their system and beliefs.

I believe that we are heading or being dragged kicking and screaming in my view towards world peace because it’s what’s best for all humanity and been put off because arms sales and wars have been so profitable for the rich and wealthy. It’s what’s best for the poor and oppressed who have suffered silently for so long under this system without reprieve or relief. And the time has come to help these people I believe and so it’s happening- the collapse of this corrupt, unjust system to be replaced with one that cares for all humanity not just the rich.

“The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-encompassing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men. Baha’u’llah)

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't think you should share that, it is right wing propaganda. This virus is at the very beginning, the toll will be much worse at the end of this pandemic than the swine flu. The regular media has its biases, but the right-wing media is distorting things.

How can we really know who is telling the truth?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Aha, I understand. That is your filter, to keep Corona out of your system. You could try some Beedi

If cigarette/pan shops are closed, how do I even get beedies? I will have to do something about it.

We can all be one in spite of our differences in beliefs. It is an attitude and a behavior ...

Then do not claim in face of Zoroastrians, Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists that the 19th Century uneducated Iranian preacher, Bahaollah, was Sayoshant, Jesus, Krishna and Maitreya. Keep such divisive beliefs to yourself. But you drum it up.

“The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-encompassing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men." Baha’u’llah

"Under my banner". Was he crazy?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I have been saying that the media hyped this up and caused the mass hysteria from the very beginning.

To say something like that is the height of insensitiveness or plain foolishness.

"There are currently 337,553 confirmed cases and 14,654 deaths from the coronavirus COVID-19 outbreak as of March 23, 2020, 02:37 GMT."
Coronavirus Cases: Statistics and Charts - Worldometer