• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Convince me

9Westy9

Sceptic, Libertarian, Egalitarian
Premium Member
Well done. :p Kalām's, like all strands of the Cosmological Argument, is deeply and quite obviously flawed, and in multiple, fundamental, ways. It carries no more weight than Pascal's Wager (i.e. none at all). If you want a discussion, head over to the Proofs of God thread and argue for Kalām's Cosmological Argument.

I already made a thread arguing against Kalam :p

I think you'll find that it is indeed impossible to work out conclusive proof either for or against God. If you disagree, I suggest you dig up said proof.

Exactly. The only time proof would be possible is via divine revelation. Even then that's only proof to those who see it.

The real flaw in my argument, which you probably grasped but failed to articulate, is that I'm assuming that morality is objective, rather than subjective; it's in the section leading from "then you should not do it" to "if you do not do it", in that if you follow the prescribed suggestion that the object in question is immoral, then you are making your own (subjective) moral judgement on it, but you are also free to reject that and do what would be considered "moral" and avoid the immoral object; so, in the case of "if you do not do it", there is nothing to stop you from doing it but your own construct of morality in the belief that this object is immoral. ;)

I see
 
I already made a thread arguing against Kalam :p

That's hardly necessary - surely no-one on here really thinks his arguments are of any worthy evidence for God? If they do, please link me to the thread; I'll check it out.

Exactly. The only time proof would be possible is via divine revelation. Even then that's only proof to those who see it.

To be fair, I did mean objective proof; subjective proof, as you say, must come through some kind of revelation.


I'm glad. Sorry for putting you through that; it was my idea of a joke. :p
 

9Westy9

Sceptic, Libertarian, Egalitarian
Premium Member
That's hardly necessary - surely no-one on here really thinks his arguments are of any worthy evidence for God? If they do, please link me to the thread; I'll check it out.

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...y-kalam-cosmological-argument-ridiculous.html

To be fair, I did mean objective proof; subjective proof, as you say, must come through some kind of revelation.

that's fair enough.

I'm glad. Sorry for putting you through that; it was my idea of a joke. :p

lol, it's okay. I need to learn how to better criticise arguments anyway.
 
Top