Converts to Islam, what attracted you to it?

[stevecanuck]

I know we have a least one convert on this site, and I would like to know what there is about islam that made you convert to it. Thanks.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I know we have a least one convert on this site, and I would like to know what there is about islam that made you convert to it. Thanks.

I was raised in a Christian environment and had a reasonable education.
I came in contact with Muslims in my early 20's, and it seemed to have a positive influence on me.
On the birth of my first child, I was unemployed and my wife left me, and I started thinking about why things had started to go wrong.
I started reading the Bible, and I was invited to a mosque by a neighbour.
I told him I was thinking of becoming a Jew, as I was reading the OT a lot.

Allah SWT clearly had other plans.

 

[stevecanuck]

I was raised in a Christian environment and had a reasonable education.
I came in contact with Muslims in my early 20's, and it seemed to have a positive influence on me.
On the birth of my first child, I was unemployed and my wife left me, and I started thinking about why things had started to go wrong.
I started reading the Bible, and I was invited to a mosque by a neighbour.
I told him I was thinking of becoming a Jew, as I was reading the OT a lot.

Allah SWT clearly had other plans.

Okay, sorry about the trials you faced.

I still want to know what there was about Islam that specifically attracted you.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I still want to know what there was about Islam that specifically attracted you.

I already believed in God.
..not necessarily in any traditional way, as I got to my late teens.

I found it very interesting that Muslims had the same dietary laws as Jews, and became more interested.
At first, I was given a copy of Qur'an in English, but I found it hard reading, and harsh. I was familiar with a softer approach being of Protestant background.
But circumstances caused me to look again, and I slowly began to accept its inclusion of harsh warnings.

I became a Muslim alongside many Jamaican Rastas in the 1980's.
I think that made it easier as we studied and practiced together.

That was then. This is now.
It hasn't got any easier, that is for sure.

 

[stevecanuck]

I already believed in God.
..not necessarily in any traditional way, as I got to my late teens.

I found it very interesting that Muslims had the same dietary laws as Jews, and became more interested.
At first, I was given a copy of Qur'an in English, but I found it hard reading, and harsh. I was familiar with a softer approach being of Protestant background.
But circumstances caused me to look again, and I slowly began to accept its inclusion of harsh warnings.

I became a Muslim alongside many Jamaican Rastas in the 1980's.
I think that made it easier as we studied and practiced together.

That was then. This is now.
It hasn't got any easier, that is for sure.

Fair enough, I think we're getting closer. I've learned more about you, but not what there is about the Qur'an that you liked. I've been reading it for over 20 years (yes, because of 9/11), and for a reason that might surprise you. I lived in Egypt for seven years and I can say I came away with a basically positive view of the Egyptians I worked with, so I thought I would read the Qur'an so that I could defend Islam as a religion of peace that would never encourage such awful acts of terrorism.

But, those good intentions didn't survive the first few verses of surah 2. I was absolutely gob-smacked at the sheer hatred that it preached. It was only then that I thought back and realized how I had let too much go when I was in Egypt. The best example that comes to mind was when we expats tried to organize a family picnic day with our Egyptian coworkers so that our families could meet each other. They said no because, "They just weren't ready for that yet". Translation: They didn't want their families mixing with people that the Qur'an calls "the lowest of Allah's creatures".

The more I read the worse it got. I just can't think of one good reason why a Western, modernized person would appreciate a 7th century screed like the Qur'an.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..I've learned more about you, but not what there is about the Qur'an that you liked..

There is a lot in the Qur'an that I don't like.
There is a lot about reality that I don't like.

Should I base my beliefs on something, just because I like it?

I was absolutely gob-smacked at the sheer hatred that it preached..

I don't think it preaches hatred.
It certainly appears to be harsh in some verses, yes.
..but then John the Baptist was beheaded, and people tried to have Jesus killed.
People also tried to kill Muhammad, [peace be with them].

The best example that comes to mind was when we expats tried to organize a family picnic day with our Egyptian coworkers so that our families could meet each other. They said no because, "They just weren't ready for that yet".

No. A lot of Muslims do not participate in mixed sex gatherings.
You shouldn't take it personally.

 

[stevecanuck]

There is a lot in the Qur'an that I don't like.
There is a lot about reality that I don't like.

Should I base my beliefs on something, just because I like it?

Okay, it's not that something about it attracted you as such, it's that you simply believe it.

I don't think it preaches hatred.
It certainly appears to be harsh in some verses, yes.

Calling unbelievers low creatures, like donkeys, like cattle, like dogs with their tongues lolling out, and evil certainly sounds like hate to me.

..but then John the Baptist was beheaded, and people tried to have Jesus killed.
People also tried to kill Muhammad, [peace be with them].

None of that pertains to my question.

No. A lot of Muslims do not participate in mixed sex gatherings.
You shouldn't take it personally.

I don't think that's true. In those seven years I saw mixed gatherings of Muslims all the time. It was clear our coworkers did not want their families to meet ours. VERY clear. I was there.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Okay, it's not that something about it attracted you as such, it's that you simply believe it.

I believe that Moses, Jesus and Muhammad are prophets of the One God, yes.

Calling unbelievers low creatures, like donkeys, like cattle, like dogs with their tongues lolling out, and evil certainly sounds like hate to me.

God, the Most High, says that we might love some disbelievers, while they despise us, and wish us to disbelieve like them.

The Qur'an contains harsh warnings. God knows why He uses the language He uses.
War and fighting is part of reality.
Power and wealth is a huge test for mankind.

Muslims are not instructed to fight against those who don't fight against them.
Are Muslims and Christians guilty of war crimes? Very likely.
God is Holy, while many of mankind are not.

 

[stevecanuck]

Muslims are not instructed to fight against those who don't fight against them.

Of all the possible points of contention regarding what Islam really teaches, this is by far the most important IMO.

how do you reconcile the creation of the Islamic empire with your claim?

 

[muhammad_isa]

..how do you reconcile the creation of the Islamic empire with your claim?

I don't try to.
Empires come and go, be they Islamic or otherwise.
Almighty God is aware of atrocities that mankind are guilty of.
They are not limited to Muslims.

The Roman Empire persecuted early Christians, and subsequently made Christianity a state religion, manipulating creed for the ends of empire. Tut tut.

 

[stevecanuck]

I don't try to.
Empires come and go, be they Islamic or otherwise.
Almighty God is aware of atrocities that mankind are guilty of.
They are not limited to Muslims.

The Roman Empire persecuted early Christians, and subsequently made Christianity a state religion, manipulating creed for the ends of empire. Tut tut.

This is where your (and everybody else's) defense of Islam comes off the rails. You claim that fighting is only sanctioned in self defense, and then deflect when asked to explain the militaristic direction that it took in the last few years, and continued to take.

Surah 9 has absolutely nothing to do with self defense, and it set the tone for 1400 years of military jihad.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Converts to Islam, what attracted you to it?: Always surprises me. I ascribe it to lack of educatio or force of circumstances (like cricketer Yousuf Youhana, a Christian, becoming Mohammad Yusuf in Pakistan).

 

[muhammad_isa]

Converts to Islam, what attracted you to it?: Always surprises me. I ascribe it to lack of education or force of circumstances..

Well, you do not believe in God.
If you did, then you would have to decide on which version of "truth" is correct.

Those who believe in Divine truth and God's messengers are often persecuted for their belief.
Jews were persecuted, Christians were persecuted, and Muslims were persecuted.

Islam survived against all the odds. It wouldn't have survived without the Qur'an.
With the Edict of Thessalonica in 380, Christianity became the state church of the Roman Empire. The Christian emperors persecuted their Jewish subjects and restricted their rights.

History is all a matter of perspective.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Well, you do not believe in God.
If you did, then you would have to decide on which version of "truth" is correct.

Truth should not demand a prior belief. It should stand by itself.
After belief, what is false would also appear as truth.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Truth should not demand a prior belief. It should stand by itself.
After belief, what is false would also appear as truth.

Well, I was raised in a Christian environment.
That is what I knew, and learned at school.
The main thing about it for me, was belief in God, who created the universe. I wasn't really sure how Jesus fitted into the picture, but
continually heard "through Jesus Christ our Lord".

It was only when I got to my twenties that I discovered Islam, and things fell into place. I had never understood the trinity, in any case.

Personally, I cannot imagine a universe without a creator. To me, it defies logic, that a universe like ours could exist, for no particular reason.
It then follows on from there, that the Divine would somehow communicate with His creation.

 

[Aupmanyav]

To me, it defies logic, that a universe like ours could exist, for no particular reason.

To me, it defies logic that a God could exist for no reason and reason for which he would create a universe.

 

[muhammad_isa]

To me, it defies logic that a God could exist for no reason.

..but not the universe?
Evolution is not a reason, of course, it is a scientific observation.

..and reason for which he would create a universe.

There is a reason, whether we might have some idea or not.

 

[Aupmanyav]

..but not the universe?

Yeah, even the universe. Why is it there? Is it really there? Till when it may be around? We need to find out.

 

[Hamilton]

I know we have a least one convert on this site, and I would like to know what there is about islam that made you convert to it. Thanks.

I suggest that there is a large, embracing fraternalism in the mosque, and united prayer strengthens that sense of belonging.

The experience in ISKCON is similar, with group sankirtana (schanting and dancing).

A few Christian denominations create this sense in small groups, that have lots of singing, mutual encouragement, and "coffee and donuts". Minus the coffee and donuts, that's probably why Manichaeism lasted so long.

 

[stevecanuck]

I suggest that there is a large, embracing fraternalism in the mosque, and united prayer strengthens that sense of belonging.

The experience in ISKCON is similar, with group sankirtana (schanting and dancing).

A few Christian denominations create this sense in small groups, that have lots of singing, mutual encouragement, and "coffee and donuts". Minus the coffee and donuts, that's probably why Manichaeism lasted so long.

You're describing people who are looking for fellowship, and I'm sure that accounts for some new members, but I'm wondering what there is about Islam itself that would attract 'Western' converts.