Converting to Judaism, but no local synagogue

[sPagan]

Hey everyone, so here's my question. The local synagogue is basically in apartment since in the time of fascism the synagogue was destroyed and the territory for rebuilding a new one hasn't been returned to the Jewish community since then. So basically the conversion is not possible since it lacks the essentials like the bet din & mikvah. The local rabbi had some issues with some Jews which lead to separation between Jewish community in my city (there are less than 200 Jews in my city).

So is there any other way for converting? I am very educated about Judaism & the process of conversion, but maybe there are alternative ways of converting. I'm not interested specific in any branch, but I assume Orthodox & Modern Orthodox don't allow any alternatives.

 

[RabbiO]

Based upon your other posts on the forum you appear to be actively practicing, for want of a better term, a religion whose beliefs and practices are incompatible with Judaism. It's like, say, a Catholic declaring that he is going to convert to Judaism, but in the meantime continuing to pray the rosary, attend mass, take communion, and pray to Jesus.

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

[RabbiO]

Hey everyone, so here's my question. The local synagogue is basically in apartment since in the time of fascism the synagogue was destroyed and the territory for rebuilding a new one hasn't been returned to the Jewish community since then. So basically the conversion is not possible since it lacks the essentials like the bet din & mikvah. The local rabbi had some issues with some Jews which lead to separation between Jewish community in my city (there are less than 200 Jews in my city).

So is there any other way for converting? I am very educated about Judaism & the process of conversion, but maybe there are alternative ways of converting. I'm not interested specific in any branch, but I assume Orthodox & Modern Orthodox don't allow any alternatives.

As to your question, I am not aware of any non-Orthodox congregations in Croatia. If you intend to remain in Croatia, and want to be accepted as part of the Jewish community there, then your conversion will have to be under Orthodox auspices.

Have you spoken to the local rabbi?

If so, what, if anything, did he suggest?

 

[sPagan]

As to your question, I am not aware of any non-Orthodox congregations in Croatia. If you intend to remain in Croatia, and want to be accepted as part of the Jewish community there, then your conversion will have to be under Orthodox auspices.

Have you spoken to the local rabbi?

If so, what, if anything, did he suggest?

I am asking out of interest if such things are possible, the rabbi isn't very open in discussing things with non-political non-Jews from what I've heard and everything goes by their secretary in talking with others. They replied that the conversion is simply not possible in Croatia and that's all.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

@sPagan , two points:

1. Perhaps The Jewish Guide to Croatia will prove helpful.
2. Speaking of helpful, your chosen font, font size, and font color is difficult to read and suggests little concern for the reader. I recommend that you be less idiosyncratic and more considerate in your communications with the Croatian Jewish communities.

L'Shalom.

 

[RabbiO]

Hey everyone, so here's my question. The local synagogue is basically in apartment since in the time of fascism the synagogue was destroyed and the territory for rebuilding a new one hasn't been returned to the Jewish community since then. So basically the conversion is not possible since it lacks the essentials like the bet din & mikvah. The local rabbi had some issues with some Jews which lead to separation between Jewish community in my city (there are less than 200 Jews in my city).

So is there any other way for converting? I am very educated about Judaism & the process of conversion, but maybe there are alternative ways of converting. I'm not interested specific in any branch, but I assume Orthodox & Modern Orthodox don't allow any alternatives.

I know that in 2002, a mikvah was planned in Zagreb. As the rabbi there noted at the time there were people interested in conversion to Judaism, but those who wished to convert had to go out of the country, at least for the completion of the process, because there was no mikvah.

Presuming that the mikvah was built, you might be able to do distance learning, attend your local synagogue, and then arrange for beit din and mikvah in Zagreb.

 

[Tumah]

I know that in 2002, a mikvah was planned in Zagreb. As the rabbi there noted at the time there were people interested in conversion to Judaism, but those who wished to convert had to go out of the country, at least for the completion of the process, because there was no mikvah.

Presuming that the mikvah was built, you might be able to do distance learning, attend your local synagogue, and then arrange for beit din and mikvah in Zagreb.

Don't Orthodox batei din anyway require that the convert move to a Jewish town? If so, how does making a mikveh there help?

 

[sPagan]

I know that in 2002, a mikvah was planned in Zagreb. As the rabbi there noted at the time there were people interested in conversion to Judaism, but those who wished to convert had to go out of the country, at least for the completion of the process, because there was no mikvah.

Presuming that the mikvah was built, you might be able to do distance learning, attend your local synagogue, and then arrange for beit din and mikvah in Zagreb.

You know a lot about Jews in Croatia. It was planned that's true, but when I did ask about distant learning and then going out of country for bet din they simply didn't reply to me and whenever I was in synagogue there weren't the people who knew the answer because again rabbi doesn't seem to be open for discussion.

Don't Orthodox batei din anyway require that the convert move to a Jewish town? If so, how does making a mikveh there help?

There isn't such thing as Jewish town in Croatia and I believe in many European countries so that would be an issue on bigger scale. To a Jewish home - maybe, but still I'm not so sure how that'd end up.

 

[Tumah]

There isn't such thing as Jewish town in Croatia and I believe in many European countries so that would be an issue on bigger scale. To a Jewish home - maybe, but still I'm not so sure how that'd end up.

Yes, I'm not so familiar with the issued, but I'm under the impression that its normal for converts (to Orthodox Judaism) in Europe to fly to Israel for conversion, rather than covert locally.

 

[sPagan]

Yes, I'm not so familiar with the issued, but I'm under the impression that its normal for converts (to Orthodox Judaism) in Europe to fly to Israel for conversion, rather than covert locally.

Those converts must have a hell lot of money.

 

[Tumah]

Those converts must have a hell lot of money.

I haven't asked.

 

[RabbiO]

Yes, I'm not so familiar with the issued, but I'm under the impression that its normal for converts (to Orthodox Judaism) in Europe to fly to Israel for conversion, rather than covert locally.

This from the Rabbinical Council of America, an association of Orthodox rabbis. I've only included questions revolving around a would be convert moving. If you want to view the entire FAQ, http://judaismconversion.org/faq.html

As you can see, what is required, by them, is not a move to a Jewish city, but to a community. And even that, based on circumstances, has a degree of flexibility.

Frequently Asked Questions about Geirut (Jewish Conversion)Performed by the Network of Regional Batei Din for Conversion under the Auspices of the Rabbinical Council of America and the Beth Din of America​

What is the first step towards conversion?

........... If a potential candidate does not live in an Orthodox community he or she must move in to as part of the conversion process. The respective batei din and the central office are available to assist in locating sponsoring rabbis. [emphasis added]

Why must a candidate for conversion live in an Orthodox community?

While moving may involve financial and other hardships, a candidate for conversion must realize that it is not possible to learn and absorb Judaism and Torah living at a distance. Jewish observance must be experienced on a daily basis, especially on Shabbat and holidays. Living in an Orthodox community allows one to socialize with other Jews, walk to synagogue on Shabbat, and share in community activities on a regular basis.

Transient candidates (for example, college students or highly mobile professionals) who cannot live in a standard Orthodox community must at least have ongoing, reasonable access to the institutions of Orthodox life and live within walking distance to an Orthodox minyan that meets regularly each Shabbat and Yom Tov. The candidate must demonstrate a strong commitment to conducting his or her life so as to maintain access to those institutions for the rest of his or her life.

 

[Tumah]

This from the Rabbinical Council of America, an association of Orthodox rabbis. I've only included questions revolving around a would be convert moving. If you want to view the entire FAQ, http://judaismconversion.org/faq.html

As you can see, what is required, by them, is not a move to a Jewish city, but to a community.

Frequently Asked Questions about Geirut (Jewish Conversion)Performed by the Network of Regional Batei Din for Conversion under the Auspices of the Rabbinical Council of America and the Beth Din of America​

What is the first step towards conversion?

........... If a potential candidate does not live in an Orthodox community he or she must move in to as part of the conversion process. The respective batei din and the central office are available to assist in locating sponsoring rabbis. [emphasis added]

Why must a candidate for conversion live in an Orthodox community?

While moving may involve financial and other hardships, a candidate for conversion must realize that it is not possible to learn and absorb Judaism and Torah living at a distance. Jewish observance must be experienced on a daily basis, especially on Shabbat and holidays. Living in an Orthodox community allows one to socialize with other Jews, walk to synagogue on Shabbat, and share in community activities on a regular basis.

Transient candidates (for example, college students or highly mobile professionals) who cannot live in a standard Orthodox community must at least have ongoing, reasonable access to the institutions of Orthodox life and live within walking distance to an Orthodox minyan that meets regularly each Shabbat and Yom Tov. The candidate must demonstrate a strong commitment to conducting his or her life so as to maintain access to those institutions for the rest of his or her life.

Right. I didn't mean that they need to move to a Jewish city (in Israel) to convert. I was just under the impression that most Orthodox conversions in Europe take place in Israel (and then the convert returns to whatever Jewish community in Europe).

 

[Flankerl]

Regarding the Mikveh: Why? Any river should be okay. Sure a Mikveh is more convenient but a Mikveh is quite literally just a "river" in a house.

Also regarding "living in a Jewish community": One really has to see that in the lense of Jewish life in Europe. Its totally not comparable with most cases in the US. Most communities are rather small and if you can't live near your Synagogue or even in the city of your Synagogue literally no one looks at you in a bad way if you compromise (for example Shabbat services and cars). And yes I am talking about Orthodox communities and from personal experience.

 

[sPagan]

Regarding the Mikveh: Why? Any river should be okay. Sure a Mikveh is more convenient but a Mikveh is quite literally just a "river" in a house.

Also regarding "living in a Jewish community": One really has to see that in the lense of Jewish life in Europe. Its totally not comparable with most cases in the US. Most communities are rather small and if you can't live near your Synagogue or even in the city of your Synagogue literally no one looks at you in a bad way if you compromise (for example Shabbat services and cars). And yes I am talking about Orthodox communities and from personal experience.

I don't know, they said they can't convert people due to the lack of mikveh and bet din, however it's possible to invite bet din (and pay the cost of course) for the purpose of converting a person and use the river close to the city, but it seems that the community isn't simply interested in accepting converts.

 

[RabbiO]

I don't know, they said they can't convert people due to the lack of mikveh and bet din, however it's possible to invite bet din (and pay the cost of course) for the purpose of converting a person and use the river close to the city, but it seems that the community isn't simply interested in accepting converts.

Part of the conversion process is the rabbi's obligation to try to dissuade you from converting.

 

[sPagan]

Part of the conversion process is the rabbi's obligation to try to dissuade you from converting.

I am aware of that, but for whole community to ignore you - that's kinda something different. Seems they don't really give other choice to non-Jews for conversion than to be annoying and stubborn until they finally except.

 

[dantech]

I am aware of that, but for whole community to ignore you - that's kinda something different. Seems they don't really give other choice to non-Jews for conversion than to be annoying and stubborn until they finally except.

They're actually giving you the first lesson in Judaism.

Step 1: Be stubborn and annoying