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Convenient reason that solves nothing

King Phenomenon

Well-Known Member
I’ve seen a lot of times on here where somebody blames religion for all the bad things people do to people in the world. If one looks a little deeper at the situation they would realize that there’s a strong chance that bad things would be and would’ve been 10 times as worse if religion never existed. It’s a nice little place to put the blame. So instead of blaming religion let’s dive a little bit deeper and have a conversation about what’s the real reason behind all these bad things.

what came first? The act or belief?
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I’ve seen a lot of times on here where somebody blames religion for all the bad things people do to people in the world. If one looks a little deeper at the situation they would realize that there’s a strong chance that bad things would be and would’ve been 10 times as worse if religion never existed. It’s a nice little place to put the blame. So instead of blaming religion let’s dive a little bit deeper and have a conversation about what’s the real reason behind all these bad things.
Holding on to once ego would be a reason why someone attacking others, be it their religious views or their way of living. If a person holds on to his or her ego, they are not open to what other people say or believe in.
And it create friction that lead to hate, especially toward religion
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I’ve seen a lot of times on here where somebody blames religion for all the bad things people do to people in the world. If one looks a little deeper at the situation they would realize that there’s a strong chance that bad things would be and would’ve been 10 times as worse if religion never existed. It’s a nice little place to put the blame. So instead of blaming religion let’s dive a little bit deeper and have a conversation about what’s the real reason behind all these bad things.

what came first? The act or belief?


Go for it, ive looked and see religion as violent, although there are several different reasons for bad behaviour against others, religion it up there as a prime mover.

I would be interested to hear what you consider the real reasons are
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
what came first? The act or belief?
From what I have witnessed and come to understand through study and observation throughout my life - belief (the religious kind) should come second to just about anything else of any value at all.

"Acts" most certainly "came first," and religion was an afterthought. This can be demonstrated by looking at the other descendants of our ancestry - other apes (as evidence for this premise I would propose the link between humans and a great many other apes of shared endogenous retroviruses). None of them have what we would call "religion," and yet there they are - very likely more akin to what our common predecessor was. Religion came after humans became "so clever" that they could even fool themselves.
 
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I’ve seen a lot of times on here where somebody blames religion for all the bad things people do to people in the world. I

It is a foundational myth for rationalist and Secular Humanist sorts. A secular theodicy.

Humans are just a particularly violent species. We are capable of great acts of altruism but also great acts of cruelty. Just like other animals, we cannot transcend our nature.

People like to blame things like religion as it is a comforting myth for those unwilling to face the truth. They think violence is a kind of 'error', and 'religion' is the major source of this 'error'.

Ironically, many of these people will mock religious folk for their immaturity in believing in comforting myths rather than having the 'courage' to face reality as it is.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Go for it, ive looked and see religion as violent, although there are several different reasons for bad behaviour against others, religion it up there as a prime mover.

I would be interested to hear what you consider the real reasons are
It is not the religion that causes problems but the lack of respect for people of other religions.
 

King Phenomenon

Well-Known Member
Go for it, ive looked and see religion as violent, although there are several different reasons for bad behaviour against others, religion it up there as a prime mover.

I would be interested to hear what you consider the real reasons are
Dunno
I suppose we would have to get rid of all religions and then we would be able to see more accurately what the real reasons are. Wouldn’t we?
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Dunno
I suppose we would have to get rid of all religions and then we would be able to see more accurately what the real reasons are. Wouldn’t we?

Or read the religious texts that promote genocide, conquest etc to spread the particular religion
 

joe1776

Well-Known Member
We humans obviously have a good side and a bad side to our nature. I've isolated the unconscious need to feel superior to others as the prime motivator for our bad side. It results in arrogant behavior.

Our religion is superior to theirs! This isn't the cause of wars and religious intolerance, it's merely one of the pretexts. If religion didn't exist, we'd simply make do with the other pretexts;

Our nation is superior to theirs!
Our race is superior to theirs!
Our tribe is superior to theirs!
 
Our religion is superior to theirs! This isn't the cause of wars and religious intolerance, it's merely one of the pretexts. If religion didn't exist, we'd simply make do with the other pretexts;

Our nation is superior to theirs!
Our race is superior to theirs!
Our tribe is superior to theirs!

You are right.

It's just when you think there is a magical solution that is guaranteed to prevail that you start to err ;)
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
You are right.

It's just when you think there is a magical solution that is guaranteed to prevail that you start to err ;)
You mean all the highbrow discussion on RF isn't going to solve all the world's problems??
 

epronovost

Well-Known Member
Just like other animals, we cannot transcend our nature.

That is incorrect. Humans have transcended ''their nature'' on numerous occasion. You live a sedentary lifestyle and have no significant knowledge or skill to survive in the wilderness. We have created entirely artificial environment just for our own benefit and drastically changed our way of life. While there might be some limits to our capacity of self-transformation, we definitely have transformed our way of life and ways of thinking. Plus, any argument on what ''human nature'' runs in in the problem of defining what is human nature and sometime brushes aside the capacity of humans to reduce and/or transform how this nature expresses itself.

In my opinion, violence is part of human nature in the sense that we all have violent impulse and that, statistically speaking, it will express itself in a destructive way at one point or another. The question is how often and how badly. Religion, like any other major belief system, has fueled and excuse the most terrible expression of violence by exciting prejudices, insulating people from guilt and justifying it's use. The overwhelming majority of people are averse to violence, especially radical displays of it like murder, rape or pillaging. It takes special excuses and justifications to make it pallatable and religions often come with excellent and easy justification for those.
 
It takes special excuses and justifications to make it pallatable and religions often come with excellent and easy justification for those.

Yet the 20th c, the least "religious" of all completed centuries was arguably the most murderous.

(as a note, I don't think there is any meaningful way from differentiating the religious from non-religious ideologies.)
 

epronovost

Well-Known Member
Yet the 20th c, the least "religious" of all completed centuries was arguably the most murderous.

As a proportion of the population that's incorrect. That would be the 13th century if memory serves me right. I'll check it out.

erratum. After checking out it seems that both the 13th and the 20th century are pretty much neck to neck in terms of violence as expressed as number of death caused by wars and conflict compared to the general population with the 16th century close behind. It's important to note though that the technique to employed to kill people are much more sophisticated and efficient in the 20th century than in the 13th. It's also important to note that the first half of the 21st century is extremely violent while its second half significantly less so.
 
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