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Featured Contrary to Biblical History: Canaanites are alive and well

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by sayak83, Jul 28, 2017.

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  1. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    I prefer my resource-- perhaps you missed it from earlier? It's an essay by the noted historian, Dr Richard Carrier.

    The Formation of the New Testament Canon
     
  2. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    No. I am more than willing to let your belligerent willful ignorance and pathetic refusal to cite supporting evidence speak for itself.
     
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  3. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Ash nazg durbatulûk

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    Carrier is an ideologue with an agenda.

    But by all means, hold to your zeitgeist-esque understanding of history while accusing everyone else of being too biased to see the truth.
     
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  4. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    I'll add logical fallacies to the list of things of which you talk yet know nothing about

    I said the linked article doesn't support your point and asked you to prove me wrong by actually quoting the specific points from the article that you see as validating your perspective.


    Yes, that's how I interpreted it and what I was referring to when I said your article doesn't support your claim (it actually contradicts it if you bother to read the actual words).

    I know what your argument is because it is a myth commonly repeated by people who tick the boxes of being hostile to religion, highly credulous, lacking intellectual curiosity and poorly versed in history and critical thinking.

    Anyway, there is no 'Christian Bible', there are numerous Christian Bibles built around a common core of canonical texts but with some variation.

    The various canons developed organically over a few centuries, and even if Constantine and his 'committee' had wanted to 'fabricate' it, he wouldn't have been able to. You don't seem to understand the realities of governance in the 4th C.

    If you ever actually move beyond misplaced condescension and get round to checking your own facts... :D

     
    #124 Augustus, Aug 3, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
  5. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    HA! You cite Wikipedia as your "evidence". And you cannot find anything superior?

    But I cite an actual historian? Which you obviously did not bother to read?

    Nice. You can call me "belligerent" if you like-- but your continued inability to prove that your myth is NOT a myth? Is duly noted.
     
  6. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    LMAO! Oh, you are so FUNNY! You-- who's agenda Dare Not Be Questioned--EVER, have the hubris to complain about someone actually trained in actual history-- just because they do not hold your delusional world-view...

    You are so cute when you try to be .... reasonable.
     
  7. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Blah-blah-blah. Nothing you said contradicts my point:

    My point was that there was no Official Christian Bible™ prior to Constantine's fabrication committee.

    Prior to that? You had nothing but a vast contradicting collection of Friend-of-a-Friend stories, myths and legends.

    NOT something you would expect if there was an a actual GOD behind ANY of it.

    The fact that there was no Official Christian Bible™ until 300 years after the alleged events?

    Is just about all the proof you need to show there could not be any god behind this myth.
     
  8. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Who? Where?

    Actually, petulant and bombastic might have been more appropriate terms.

    What myth have I claimed is NOT (sic!) a myth? Where?
     
  9. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    That is the LAND OF CANAAN
    [​IMG]
    The people who lived in that land are called 'Canaanites' and they speak and write the 'Canaanite' language' .

    Here is the Egyptian Empire
    [​IMG]

    Most of the history of Canaan is under occupation, Egyptians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks and Romans.

    If 'Jews' are not Canaanites, then they obviously don't belong in that region, but why do they deny being Canaanites and yet, they use a Canaanite Language and worship Canaanites Deities.
     
  10. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    That is a lie. Your point was:
    You have nowhere shown that "the 'christian bible' was fabricated by Constantine's committee," nor can you show where Carrier, who knows better, has made such a silly claim.
     
  11. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    Christian Bible was NOT fabricated during the time of Constantine, rather, the history of Constantine and his conversion was fabricated, most likely in the 11th century CE, that is when the Catholic Church was established.

    There are no surviving histories or biographies dealing with Constantine's life and rule
    Bleckmann, "Sources for the History of Constantine" (CC), 14; Corcoran, Empire of the Tetrarchs, 1; Lenski, "Introduction" (CC), 2–3.
     
  12. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    <yawn>

    ignore-list​

    </yawn>
     
  13. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    The selection of the Christian canon was done during the latter part of the 4th century and the beginning of the 5th, thus taking over 1/2 a century, and even then it wasn't entirely completed as they couldn't decide on the fate of the Apocrypha.

    The CC was in place many centuries previous to that, especially provable since the reference to the "Catholic Church" goes back into the 2nd century c.e.

    That's true but there are many references to him from other early sources. See: Constantine the Great - Wikipedia
     
  14. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    The CC was created by Pope Innocent III , All prior popes are historical fictional, only the Roman Emperors where called 'Pater Patria' abbreviated as 'PA PA' ( Pope), note' Pope Pius I and Antoninius Pius' existing at the same time in Rome. It seems Catholic Church as being pumping out historical fiction since the 11th century CE.
     
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  15. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    Pray tell, to what then, did Ignatius of Antioch refer to in 107? Or Cyril of Jerusalem? Or any of the other authors before Innocent III? Are the documents themselves falsely manufactured?
     
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  16. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    They never was an Ignatius of Antioch, it is all historical fictional.
     
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  17. Quagmire

    Quagmire Imaginary talking monkey
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    This is really all I needed to see.

    *goes to see what else is on the menu*
     
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  18. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    You are aware of Roman historians, for example, Suetonius, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger and Elder, Plutarch, Licinianus, Appian and Dio Cassius.

    There don't seem to be any evidence for any first century Christian figures, St Clement, St Paul, Plutarch of Byzantium, Polycarp, Ignatius, Evodius, Papias of Hierapolis, Linus, Anacletus and Evaristus, they are not mentioned at all by Roman historians.
     
  19. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Ash nazg durbatulûk

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    I have said that the premise of the OP is incorrect, that Constantine had nothing to do with establishing any biblical canon and that Nicaea was primarily concerned with addressing Arianism. Where exactly am I wrong?

    Judges 1:27-36
    Council of Nicaea | Christianity [325]
    Constantine I | Biography, Accomplishments, Death, & Facts

    You have yet to display anything resembling reason.
     
    #139 Musing Bassist, Aug 4, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2017
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  20. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    The Old Testament pretty much debunk Christianity, so the Catholic Church are obviously very sensitive regarding the documents of the OT, they don't wanna undermine their fascist imperialistic policies.
     
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