Contradictions in the Bible

[Faithofchristian]

The above simply doesn't stand to any logic whatsoever based on what we know about Biblical composition and its history. If your church teaches you that the above is somehow correct, let me recommend that you find a church that teaches some serious scholarship, thus not fabrications built on a we/they dichotomy. Paul said to beware of those who "cause divisions" amongst the flock, but it appears that your church has ignored that teaching and and convinced you that your church is right and all others are wrong.

Also, the Gospel has it that p.c. beliefs are far less important than living in "agape", the "law of love". Nowhere does it appear in scripture that one or one's church supposedly knows all the answers. Jesus never said that we would know everything, so why are you taking a position that seemingly reflects that you think your church does? Fortunately, most churches don't make such a claim today, but it's obvious that yours does based on what you've posted.

To finish this off, please find a church that doesn't play the we v they card and which causes divisions, which is not only what Paul taught but also what Jesus taught.

Take care.

First of all, what church are you referring to that I belong to.
Seeing that I don't belong to any church or organizations.
That kinda cancels that all out what your trying to imply that I belong to church, unto which I never ever said anything about belonging to a church.
As I do not belong to any church or organizations of any kind.

Where does it appear in scripture that one or one's church have all the answers.

Can you explain exactly who Jesus Christ is speaking to in John 8:32---"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free"
How is a person to know the truth, it is by studying God's word the Bible/Scriptures.

And that's not according to what man's teachings will say,
But according to the teachings of Christ Jesus will say.
Do you or can you tell the difference between man's teachings and the teachings of Christ Jesus.

Man's teachings will always contradict the teachings of Christ Jesus.
But can you tell the difference?

By man's teachings will say that Jesus Christ is coming before the tribulation to rapture people out.
But the teachings of Christ Jesus said in his book of Revelation That Jesus Christ can not come until the last Prophecy happens first.
Which brings the end to the tribulation and the return of Jesus Christ.
So how does man's teachings line up to what Jesus Christ has said.

By the time rapture is supposedly to happen before the tribulation,
But yet Jesus Christ said in his book of Revelation that he can not come until the last Prophecy happens first. Which brings the end to the tribulation and the return of Jesus Christ.

 

[sooda]

I see. You think you have a contradiction and can't wait to prove it. Your problem is, however, all you think you got is a contradiction. You don''t have any idea what (Matt. 24) is saying. If you did you would explain your contradiction to me. It is much easier and safer for you if I present my position to you so that you just need to jump up and down like a flea hollering about how that is not reasonable, or whatever.

(Matt. 24:4-31) is all an answer to the question asked by the disciples in (Matt. 24:3). "...what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" The disciples had asked another question. (24:3) ...when shall these things be?....." That question is not answered in (Matthew) but is in (Luke 21:12-24) and pertains to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. That question was in response to Christ predicting the destruction of the Temple in (24:2). "...there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."


So, we are concerned with the question "what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" This pertains to the end of the Church age and theJews during the 7 year Tribulation period. (Matt. 24:4-31)

(24:4-8) ---This describes the Church age up to the Tribulation.

(24:9-14)---This describes the plight of the Jews during the first 3 1/2 years where they will be suffering but preaching again the Gospel of the Kingdom. The Church is gone.

(24:15-20)---This describes the middle of the Tribulation where the abomination of desolation is set up in the Temple.

(24:21-28)---This describes the last 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation.

(24:29-31)---This describes the return of Christ at the end of the Tribulation.

Then Christ gives the parable of the fig tree. (24:32) He says in (33), "...when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors." What things? All that which was described in (24:-9-31), for that pertains to Israel once again putting forth her leaves. A nation of God again.

Then Christ says in (24:34), "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." What generation? The generation that sees Israel putting forth her leaves again as a nation of God. That generation that is alive when the Tribulation starts will see the fulfillment of all that Christ has said.

Good-Ole-Rebel

You do know the fig tree bears fruit twice a year?

Remember the Temple was destroyed in August 70 AD during the grape harvest.

Apocalyptic literature was very popular from 200 BC to 100 AD. Everyone was writing it.. and it was heavily symbolic.. Of course the people of the first century understood the symbolism. We don't unless we study first century history.

 

[metis]

Seeing that I don't belong to any church or organizations.

Then you are ignoring the Gospel itself as "church" is used over 100 times in the NT, and for good reason as the gospel weren't written until at the least a couple of decades after Jesus' crucifixion. Therefore, you're not even obeying the Gospel in the first place whereas Jesus mandated that the apostles to "Go unto all nations, ...". And then the apostles appointed disciples to convert others and to teach the Gospel to them, and this is what the Church did and still does, and I belong to that Church because of this.

 

[sooda]

First of all, what church are you referring to that I belong to.
Seeing that I don't belong to any church or organizations.
That kinda cancels that all out what your trying to imply that I belong to church, unto which I never ever said anything about belonging to a church.
As I do not belong to any church or organizations of any kind.

Where does it appear in scripture that one or one's church have all the answers.

Can you explain exactly who Jesus Christ is speaking to in John 8:32---"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free"
How is a person to know the truth, it is by studying God's word the Bible/Scriptures.

And that's not according to what man's teachings will say,
But according to the teachings of Christ Jesus will say.
Do you or can you tell the difference between man's teachings and the teachings of Christ Jesus.

Man's teachings will always contradict the teachings of Christ Jesus.
But can you tell the difference?

By man's teachings will say that Jesus Christ is coming before the tribulation to rapture people out.
But the teachings of Christ Jesus said in his book of Revelation That Jesus Christ can not come until the last Prophecy happens first.
Which brings the end to the tribulation and the return of Jesus Christ.
So how does man's teachings line up to what Jesus Christ has said.

By the time rapture is supposedly to happen before the tribulation,
But yet Jesus Christ said in his book of Revelation that he can not come until the last Prophecy happens first. Which brings the end to the tribulation and the return of Jesus Christ.

The Bible says there is NO temple.. It was the end of the world as they knew it. Scofield, John Nelson Darby, Hal Lindsey, Dallas Theological Seminary and the Dispensationalists have deceived Protestants for over 100 years now.

 

[sooda]

That's all because The Mainstream Protestant belief and people to day don't understand Jesus Christ's book of Revelation.
You do know that in Jesus Christ's book of Revelation, It is written And they went up on the land of the earth, and circle the camp of the saints round about and the beloved city Jerusalem. This is all still to happen future from us. Revelation 20:9
And not back as you suppose in 70 A.D

How is it you say that this happened back in 70 A.D.
But yet according to what Jesus Christ given in his book of Revelation this all takes place yet future from us.

It seems the mainstream Protestant belief should haved paid more attention to what Jesus Christ has revealed in his book of Revelation.
The book of Revelation is the book all about future events that are to take place in our near future.

Good grief. it was purely political to sell Christian Zionism to uneducated Christians.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

You do know the fig tree bears fruit twice a year?

Remember the Temple was destroyed in August 70 AD during the grape harvest.

Apocalyptic literature was very popular from 200 BC to 100 AD. Everyone was writing it.. and it was heavily symbolic.. Of course the people of the first century understood the symbolism. We don't unless we study first century history.

What I said, and what (Matt. 24:4-31) is addressing is not 70 A.D. Read again.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

The Bible says there is NO temple.. It was the end of the world as they knew it. Scofield, John Nelson Darby, Hal Lindsey, Dallas Theological Seminary and the Dispensationalists have deceived Protestants for over 100 years now.

Where does the Bible say that?

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Skwim]

I see. You think you have a contradiction and can't wait to prove it. Your problem is, however, all you think you got is a contradiction. You don''t have any idea what (Matt. 24) is saying. If you did you would explain your contradiction to me. It is much easier and safer for you if I present my position to you so that you just need to jump up and down like a flea hollering about how that is not reasonable, or whatever.

(Matt. 24:4-31) is all an answer to the question asked by the disciples in (Matt. 24:3). "...what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" The disciples had asked another question. (24:3) ...when shall these things be?....." That question is not answered in (Matthew) but is in (Luke 21:12-24) and pertains to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. That question was in response to Christ predicting the destruction of the Temple in (24:2). "...there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."


So, we are concerned with the question "what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" This pertains to the end of the Church age and theJews during the 7 year Tribulation period. (Matt. 24:4-31)

(24:4-8) ---This describes the Church age up to the Tribulation.

(24:9-14)---This describes the plight of the Jews during the first 3 1/2 years where they will be suffering but preaching again the Gospel of the Kingdom. The Church is gone.

(24:15-20)---This describes the middle of the Tribulation where the abomination of desolation is set up in the Temple.

(24:21-28)---This describes the last 3 1/2 years of the Tribulation.

(24:29-31)---This describes the return of Christ at the end of the Tribulation.

Then Christ gives the parable of the fig tree. (24:32) He says in (33), "...when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors." What things? All that which was described in (24:-9-31), for that pertains to Israel once again putting forth her leaves. A nation of God again.

Then Christ says in (24:34), "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." What generation? The generation that sees Israel putting forth her leaves again as a nation of God. That generation that is alive when the Tribulation starts will see the fulfillment of all that Christ has said.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Well, lets follow the verses starting with Matthew 23

Matthew 23: Jesus criticizes the religious leaders

Mat 23: 29 talking to the Pharisees

Mat 23: 35-36 You will be guilty for the killing of all the good people who lived between the time of Abel and the time of Zechariah. 36 Believe me when I say that all these things will happen to you people who are living now.

23;39 39 I tell you, you will not see me again until that time when you will say, ‘Welcome! God bless the one who comes in the name of the Lord
​

Matthew chapter 24: Jesus talking to his followers

24:3 Later, Jesus was sitting at a place on the Mount of Olives. The followers came to be alone with him. They [the followers of Jesus] said, “Tell us when these things will happen. And what will happen to prepare us for your coming and the end of time?”

24: 6 You [the followers of Jesus mentioned in verse 24:3] will hear about wars that are being fought. And you will hear stories about other wars beginning. But don’t be afraid. These things must happen before the end comes.

24:9 “Then you [the followers of Jesus mentioned in verse 24:3 ] will be arrested and handed over to be punished and killed. People all over the world will hate you [the followers of Jesus mentioned in verse 24:3 ] because you believe in me.

24: 15 “Daniel the prophet spoke about ‘the terrible thing that causes destruction.’ You [still the followers of Jesus mentioned in verse 24:3] will see this terrible thing standing in the holy place.”

24: 20 Pray that it will not be winter or a Sabbath day when these things happen and you [still the followers of Jesus mentioned in verse 24:3 ] have to run away, [Jesus's followers will around when these terrible things happen]

24; 26 “Someone might tell you [still the followers of Jesus mentioned in verse 24:3 ], ‘The Messiah is there in the desert!’ But don’t go into the desert to look for him. Someone else might say, ‘There is the Messiah in that room!’ But don’t believe it.

24:28 It’s like looking for a dead body: You [still the followers of Jesus mentioned in verse 24:3 ] will find it where the vultures are gathering above. [Jesus's followers will find these terrible things happening]

24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [The tribulation is witnessed by the followers of Jesus mentioned in verse 24:3] [There's been no shift in the time Jesus is speaking of. It's still that of the followers of Jesus mentioned in verse 24:3]

24:30 “Then there will be something in the sky that shows the Son of Man is coming. All the people of the world will cry. Everyone will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds in the sky. He will come with power and great glory.

24:34 Verily I say unto you [still the followers of Jesus mentioned in verse 24:3 ], This generation [the current generation of the followers of Jesus in verse 24:3---there is no other generation mentioned or indicated ] shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

.
​

 

[sooda]

Where does the Bible say that?

Good-Ole-Rebel

Revelation 21:22

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

@Skwim

There is nothing to indicate that the immediate generation is being discussed. I have already told you. Jesus said, "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." (Matt. 24:34) What generation? The one that sees the fig tree putting forth leaves. That will be at the beginning of the Tribulation.

Sorry. You will have to go find another contradiction.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Subduction Zone]

@Skwim

There is nothing to indicate that the immediate generation is being discussed. I have already told you. Jesus said, "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." (Matt. 24:34) What generation? The one that sees the fig tree putting forth leaves. That will be at the beginning of the Tribulation.

Sorry. You will have to go find another contradiction.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Who it was was quite obvious if you can read the verses in contex.. .. oh sorry. My bad. Context is a bit of a sore point with you.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Revelation 21:22

In the New Heaven and New Earth and New Jerusalem, there is no temple. Eternity. (Rev. 21:1-2) During the Church age there is a temple. During the Millennium there is a temple.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Skwim]

@Skwim
Sorry. You will have to go find another contradiction.

Never said or implied it's a contradiction, now did I? Of course not, This is just another one of those misperceptions you're so prone to.

You have my sympathies.

.

 

[sooda]

In the New Heaven and New Earth and New Jerusalem, there is no temple. Eternity. (Rev. 21:1-2) During the Church age there is a temple. During the Millennium there is a temple.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Where does it say there is a temple?

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Never said or implied it's a contradiction, now did I? Of course not, This is just another one of those misperceptions you're so prone to.

You have my sympathies.

.

Oh, I see, you were just concerned about learning of the two comings of Jesus Christ. Sure.

I would rather have your sympathy then your approval. But, in reality, neither weigh very much to me.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Where does it say there is a temple?

Which one?

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[sooda]

What I said, and what (Matt. 24:4-31) is addressing is not 70 A.D. Read again.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Do you ever read Bible commentary?


John Calvin
“The meaning therefore is: “This prophecy does not relate to evils that are distant, and which posterity will see after the lapse of many centuries, but which are now hanging over you, and ready to fall in one mass, so that there is no part of it which the present generation will not experience.” (in loc.)

“For within fifty years the city was destroyed and the temple was razed, the whole country was reduced to a hideous desert, and the obstinacy of the world rose up against God.” (Commentary on the Harmony of the Evangelists, Matthew, Mark, and Luke, vol. 3, trans. by William Pringle (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1949), 151.

“Though Christ employs a general expression, yet he does not extend the discourses to all the miseries which would befall the Church, but merely informs them, that before a single generation shall have been completed, they will learn by experience the truth of what he has said. For within fifty years the city was destroyed and the temple was rased, the whole country was reduced to a hideous desert, and the obstinacy of the world rose up against God. Nay more, their rage was inflamed to exterminate the doctrine of salvation, false teachers arose to corrupt the pure gospel by their impostures, religion sustained amazing shocks, and the whole company of the godly was miserably distressed. Now though the same evils were perpetrated in uninterrupted succession for many ages afterwards, yet what Christ said was true, that, before the close of a singlegeneration, believers would feel in reality, and by undoubted experience, the truth of his prediction; for the apostles endured the same things which we see in the present day. And yet it was not the design of Christ to promise to his followers that their calamities would be terminated within a short time, (for then he would have contradicted himself, having previously warned them that the end was not yet

but, in order to encourage them to perseverance, he expressly foretold that those things related to their own age.

The meaning therefore is: “This prophecy does not relate to evils that are distant, and which posterity will see after the lapse of many centuries, but which are now hanging over you, and ready to fall in one mass, so that there is no part of it which the present generation will not experience.” So then, while our Lord heaps upon a single generation every kind of calamities, he does not by any means exempt future ages from the same kind of sufferings, but only enjoins the disciples to be prepared for enduring them all with firmness (Commentary on a Harmony of the Evangelists, Matthew, Mark, and Luke, vol.3, tr. William Pringle, Eerdmans, 1949, pp. 151, 152).

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Do you ever read Bible commentary?


John Calvin
“The meaning therefore is: “This prophecy does not relate to evils that are distant, and which posterity will see after the lapse of many centuries, but which are now hanging over you, and ready to fall in one mass, so that there is no part of it which the present generation will not experience.” (in loc.)

“For within fifty years the city was destroyed and the temple was razed, the whole country was reduced to a hideous desert, and the obstinacy of the world rose up against God.” (Commentary on the Harmony of the Evangelists, Matthew, Mark, and Luke, vol. 3, trans. by William Pringle (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1949), 151.

“Though Christ employs a general expression, yet he does not extend the discourses to all the miseries which would befall the Church, but merely informs them, that before a single generation shall have been completed, they will learn by experience the truth of what he has said. For within fifty years the city was destroyed and the temple was rased, the whole country was reduced to a hideous desert, and the obstinacy of the world rose up against God. Nay more, their rage was inflamed to exterminate the doctrine of salvation, false teachers arose to corrupt the pure gospel by their impostures, religion sustained amazing shocks, and the whole company of the godly was miserably distressed. Now though the same evils were perpetrated in uninterrupted succession for many ages afterwards, yet what Christ said was true, that, before the close of a singlegeneration, believers would feel in reality, and by undoubted experience, the truth of his prediction; for the apostles endured the same things which we see in the present day. And yet it was not the design of Christ to promise to his followers that their calamities would be terminated within a short time, (for then he would have contradicted himself, having previously warned them that the end was not yet but, in order to encourage them to perseverance, he expressly foretold that those things related to their own age.

The meaning therefore is: “This prophecy does not relate to evils that are distant, and which posterity will see after the lapse of many centuries, but which are now hanging over you, and ready to fall in one mass, so that there is no part of it which the present generation will not experience.” So then, while our Lord heaps upon a single generation every kind of calamities, he does not by any means exempt future ages from the same kind of sufferings, but only enjoins the disciples to be prepared for enduring them all with firmness (Commentary on a Harmony of the Evangelists, Matthew, Mark, and Luke, vol.3, tr. William Pringle, Eerdmans, 1949, pp. 151, 152).

Yes, I do use Bible Commentaries. I don't read them, but make reference to them regularly. Concerning Calvin's statements you showed, I find it strange that he would say that the prophecy doesn't relate to things distant. That he recognized it as a prophecy showed that it pertained to things distant.

My point is that Calvin too believes it speaks to things distant, he just directed it all to 70 A.D. As I said, (Matt. 24:1-2) does speak to 70 A.D. And then later Luke continues with that which speaks to 70 A.D. (Luke 21:12-24) In other words, (Luke) answers the question in (Matt. 24:3), "When shall these things be?" (Matthew) answers the questions in (24:3), "What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

The doctrine of eschatology was not all that known in Calvin's day. They were more centered on the immediate salvation of man. This is the problem I have with Reformed theology. They act like the reformers knew everything about the Bible at that time and so there is no need to learn anymore.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[sooda]

Yes, I do use Bible Commentaries. I don't read them, but make reference to them regularly. Concerning Calvin's statements you showed, I find it strange that he would say that the prophecy doesn't relate to things distant. That he recognized it as a prophecy showed that it pertained to things distant.

My point is that Calvin too believes it speaks to things distant, he just directed it all to 70 A.D. As I said, (Matt. 24:1-2) does speak to 70 A.D. And then later Luke continues with that which speaks to 70 A.D. (Luke 21:12-24) In other words, (Luke) answers the question in (Matt. 24:3), "When shall these things be?" (Matthew) answers the questions in (24:3), "What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

The doctrine of eschatology was not all that known in Calvin's day. They were more centered on the immediate salvation of man. This is the problem I have with Reformed theology. They act like the reformers knew everything about the Bible at that time and so there is no need to learn anymore.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Read the Scofield commentary. Its only 150 years old.

 

[Desert Snake]

Revelation 21:22

No, you get an inference to a change in religion, before that. Unfortunately it didn't happen with Jesus, certain things. So, I'm not sure you can say 'everything occurred', no, not really.

I don't want to get into this, because the religions are such a mess. In other words, can't try and change certain ideas.