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Contradiction: Ezra and Nehemia's incorrect count

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
I found the following so called contradiction in Shabir Ali's 101 Bible contradictions, and after investigating the claim, I saw the following
Ezra 2:64 and Nehemiah 7:66 agree that the total number of
the whole assembly was
42,360.
Yet the numbers do not add up to anything close.

The totals obtained from each book is as follows:

- 29,818 (Ezra)

- 31,089 (Nehemiah)

Answer:

I encountered this contradiction many times in debates with Atheists and Muslims as evidence that the Bible is very poor on its mathematical skills.

Luckily, I know how to read, and I did just that when I came across the following 2 verses not mentioned by the accusers.

Ezra 2:2 and Nehemiah 7:7. These 2 verses decimated the “contradiction” in a flash! The name list of the assembly is a list of “the men of the children of Israel” and not “everyone of Israel”.

All the name lists in the Bible are the names of the Men for whatever reason. This list specifically state that 42 360 people returned from exile, but then mentions the names of the “MEN”, and not of the women and children.
Good, No contradiction so far.

Now why would the Bible then add up two different totals in Ezra (29 818) and Nehemiah (31 089)?

Simple, the name lists were recorded on two different occasions. The first list was made upon leaving Babylon and the second after the arrival of the people in Jerusalem. if one reads Nehemia, it is clear that this was a later sensus, different from the one in Ezra.Any person making this a contradiction forgot that this massive move of 42 360 people would not have proceeded at once by train or plane. The distance was more than 1 000 Km and was done on foot. People died, and more boys turned 13 and were counted as men at a later stage.

I would like to see any accountant counting people travelling per foot from say, New York to Indianapolis, over a period of 4 months and to then reconcile every last person.

Do you agree with my observation on the above?
 

leov

Well-Known Member
I found the following so called contradiction in Shabir Ali's 101 Bible contradictions, and after investigating the claim, I saw the following
Ezra 2:64 and Nehemiah 7:66 agree that the total number of
the whole assembly was
42,360.
Yet the numbers do not add up to anything close.

The totals obtained from each book is as follows:

- 29,818 (Ezra)

- 31,089 (Nehemiah)

Answer:

I encountered this contradiction many times in debates with Atheists and Muslims as evidence that the Bible is very poor on its mathematical skills.

Luckily, I know how to read, and I did just that when I came across the following 2 verses not mentioned by the accusers.

Ezra 2:2 and Nehemiah 7:7. These 2 verses decimated the “contradiction” in a flash! The name list of the assembly is a list of “the men of the children of Israel” and not “everyone of Israel”.

All the name lists in the Bible are the names of the Men for whatever reason. This list specifically state that 42 360 people returned from exile, but then mentions the names of the “MEN”, and not of the women and children.
Good, No contradiction so far.

Now why would the Bible then add up two different totals in Ezra (29 818) and Nehemiah (31 089)?

Simple, the name lists were recorded on two different occasions. The first list was made upon leaving Babylon and the second after the arrival of the people in Jerusalem. if one reads Nehemia, it is clear that this was a later sensus, different from the one in Ezra.Any person making this a contradiction forgot that this massive move of 42 360 people would not have proceeded at once by train or plane. The distance was more than 1 000 Km and was done on foot. People died, and more boys turned 13 and were counted as men at a later stage.

I would like to see any accountant counting people travelling per foot from say, New York to Indianapolis, over a period of 4 months and to then reconcile every last person.

Do you agree with my observation on the above?
Literal text is subordinated by Gematria, OT is a theological book, not historical account.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Literal text is subordinated by Gematria, OT is a theological book, not historical account.

Respectful question: If it is subordinated by Gematria, what is the significance of the numbers referenced by the verses in the OP?
 

leov

Well-Known Member
I like this example:
"14When Abram heard that his kinsman had been taken captive, he led forth his trained men, born in his house, 318 of them, and went in pursuit as far as Dan. " Gen 14
Respectful question: If it is subordinated by Gematria, what is the significance of the numbers referenced by the verses in the OP?
I do not know - it is way above my pay grade, but there and possible still are people who understand.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I do not know - it is way above my pay grade, but there and possible still are people who understand.

OK. Putting aside the Gematria then:

The OP asserts that the numeric discrepancy hinges on whom was being counted, where/when the counting occurred, etc...

In your opinion, do you agree with this explanation? Further, is the numeric difference between Ezra and Nehemiah cogent towards disproving Biblical authenticity?
 

leov

Well-Known Member
OK. Putting aside the Gematria then:

The OP asserts that the numeric discrepancy hinges on whom was being counted, where/when the counting occurred, etc...

In your opinion, do you agree with this explanation? Further, is the numeric difference between Ezra and Nehemiah cogent towards disproving Biblical authenticity?
Well, imo, numeric difference was intentional, there is no subject in history that was researched more then Bible by Jewish learned , so they had opportunity to correct it centuries before Canon was established.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Well, imo, numeric difference was intentional, there is no subject in history that was researched more then Bible by Jewish learned , so they had opportunity to correct it centuries before Canon was established.
OK. Thank you.
 
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