continue thread on MORMONS

[rocka21]

I thought i was in a good topic about the begining of the Mormon church. Sorry it went to personal attacks by some.

if i can reply to with some quotes.


http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm/jstestimony


The Prophet Joseph Smith’s own words about the coming forth of the Book of Mormon are: “On the evening of the . . . twenty-first of September [1823] . . . I betook myself to prayer and supplication to Almighty God . . . . “While I was thus in the act of calling upon God, I discovered a light appearing in my room, which continued to increase until the room was lighter than at noonday, when immediately a personage appeared at my bedside, standing in the air, for his feet did not touch the floor. this was moroni correct? Now my question is...... how could this be an ANGLE according to bible beliefs at the TIME and not according to what the Gold plates decribed what a Angel was. Because of course, Moroni was a living person at one time on this earth. I know what your beliefs on Angles are now, what do Joseph Smith belive about Angles.



and another quote: http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_ne/14 There are only two churches: the Church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devil


i take it the LDS are the church of the lamb of God, and ALL OTHERS - are the church of the devil. - some help translating this please- thanks.

 

[SoyLeche]

I thought i was in a good topic about the begining of the Mormon church. Sorry it went to personal attacks by some.

if i can reply to with some quotes.


http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm/jstestimony


The Prophet Joseph Smith’s own words about the coming forth of the Book of Mormon are: “On the evening of the . . . twenty-first of September [1823] . . . I betook myself to prayer and supplication to Almighty God . . . . “While I was thus in the act of calling upon God, I discovered a light appearing in my room, which continued to increase until the room was lighter than at noonday, when immediately a personage appeared at my bedside, standing in the air, for his feet did not touch the floor. this was moroni correct? Now my question is...... how could this be an ANGLE according to bible beliefs at the TIME and not according to what the Gold plates decribed what a Angel was. Because of course, Moroni was a living person at one time on this earth. I know what your beliefs on Angles are now, what do Joseph Smith belive about Angles.

Because the bible beliefs of the TIME were wrong

Here is what Joseph Smith received about the nature of angels:

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/129/

and another quote: http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_ne/14 There are only two churches: the Church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devil


i take it the LDS are the church of the lamb of God, and ALL OTHERS - are the church of the devil. - some help translating this please- thanks.

The LDS church is a part of the Church of the Lamb of God, but I wouldn't say it is the whole thing.

 

[Katzpur]

Now my question is...... how could this be an ANGLE according to bible beliefs at the TIME and not according to what the Gold plates decribed what a Angel was. Because of course, Moroni was a living person at one time on this earth. I know what your beliefs on Angles are now, what do Joseph Smith belive about Angles.

I'm sorry, but I really don't know what you're getting at. Angels can be either human beings who have not yet received mortal bodies or they can be resurrected beings. Moroni was a resurrected being.

i take it the LDS are the church of the lamb of God, and ALL OTHERS - are the church of the devil. - some help translating this please- thanks.

I'm not even going there, except to say that there is truth and there is falsehood. The Church of the Lamb of God would contain only truth. Maybe someone else will wish to comment further.

 

[Comprehend]

before we start discussing this. you have to get something straight.

ANGLE - two lines that join in space at some point.

ANGEL - a heavenly messenger.

I have to run to do some church work but will be back later to join in the discussion.

BTW - church of the lamb of God is anyone who follows Jesus Christ (who is obviously the lamb of God). Any church that follows satan would be the church of the devil. easy enough isn't it?

 

[rocka21]

before we start discussing this. you have to get something straight.

ANGLE - two lines that join in space at some point.

ANGEL - a heavenly messenger.

I have to run to do some church work but will be back later to join in the discussion.

BTW - church of the lamb of God is anyone who follows Jesus Christ (who is obviously the lamb of God). Any church that follows satan would be the church of the devil. easy enough isn't it?

nice spell check. ( i am sure everyone thought i was talking about ANGLES)

and again all your answers on angels come from the book of mormon, not the KJV.
Moroni's plates had to change the BIBLICAL belief on angels to justify his apperance.



Cool!!!! i follow CHRIST!!! YEAH. so listen everyone......... you do not have to be a mormon!!!! Just follow christ and your in the church of the Lamb!!!!

EASY ENOUGH! - i thought i was lost there for a second.

Question thou... if i am not in the church of Satan, why do you try to convert " CHRISTIANS" to be mormons?

 

[jonny]

I thought i was in a good topic about the begining of the Mormon church. Sorry it went to personal attacks by some.

if i can reply to with some quotes.


http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm/jstestimony


The Prophet Joseph Smith’s own words about the coming forth of the Book of Mormon are: “On the evening of the . . . twenty-first of September [1823] . . . I betook myself to prayer and supplication to Almighty God . . . . “While I was thus in the act of calling upon God, I discovered a light appearing in my room, which continued to increase until the room was lighter than at noonday, when immediately a personage appeared at my bedside, standing in the air, for his feet did not touch the floor. this was moroni correct? Now my question is...... how could this be an ANGLE according to bible beliefs at the TIME and not according to what the Gold plates decribed what a Angel was. Because of course, Moroni was a living person at one time on this earth. I know what your beliefs on Angles are now, what do Joseph Smith belive about Angles.

I don't really understand what you're asking here. Could you clarify?

and another quote: http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_ne/14 There are only two churches: the Church of the Lamb of God and the church of the devil


i take it the LDS are the church of the lamb of God, and ALL OTHERS - are the church of the devil. - some help translating this please- thanks.

Anything that takes people away from god is the church of the devil. I don't think that you can put the label on any church in particular - or even a group of churches.

 

[MaddLlama]

nice spell check. ( i am sure everyone thought i was talking about ANGLES)

and again all your answers on angels come from the book of mormon, not the KJV.
Moroni's plates had to change the BIBLICAL belief on angels to justify his apperance.



Cool!!!! i follow CHRIST!!! YEAH. so listen everyone......... you do not have to be a mormon!!!! Just follow christ and your in the church of the Lamb!!!!

EASY ENOUGH! - i thought i was lost there for a second.

Question thou... if i am not in the church of Satan, why do you try to convert " CHRISTIANS" to be mormons?

No, you dont have to be a mormon. You don't have to be christian either.

Who has been trying to make you be a mormon? I haven't seen that here...ever...

 

[jonny]

and again all your answers on angels come from the book of mormon, not the KJV.
Moroni's plates had to change the BIBLICAL belief on angels to justify his apperance.

I really feel like I'm missing something here, so I'm not going to comment.

Cool!!!! i follow CHRIST!!! YEAH. so listen everyone......... you do not have to be a mormon!!!! Just follow christ and your in the church of the Lamb!!!!

EASY ENOUGH! - i thought i was lost there for a second.

Question thou... if i am not in the church of Satan, why do you try to convert " CHRISTIANS" to be mormons?

Mormons don't believe that anyone who isn't Mormon will end up in hell. In fact, the "hell" of Mormonism is quite different than what many Christians believe. There are plenty of threads on the topic in the LDS forums that you can read through.

We don't target any church or people to convert them to Mormonism. Missionaries from our church talk to everyone, regardless of their beliefs. Some are interested, and some are not. Mormons don't have the attitude that if you're not LDS, you have no truth in your church. We believe that there is truth in all religions, but that our church has the fulness of the gospel.

There are many things that Mormonism offers people that many Christian denomonations don't believe in. The belief in eternal families is an example.

 

[rocka21]

No, you dont have to be a mormon. You don't have to be christian either.

Who has been trying to make you be a mormon? I haven't seen that here...ever...

so your telling me, when mormons on bikes knock on my door, and i tell them i am a christian, i follow christ, they turn and ride away!

or do they try to tell me about the book of mormon? if According to your answer, i am already in the church of the lamb, whats the point?

 

[Booko]

<<wonders if this thread really belongs in Biblical Debates?>>

 

[Gentoo]

Just curious, but what are you trying to get out of this thread...?

 

[rocka21]

I really feel like I'm missing something here, so I'm not going to comment.



Mormons don't believe that anyone who isn't Mormon will end up in hell. In fact, the "hell" of Mormonism is quite different than what many Christians believe. There are plenty of threads on the topic in the LDS forums that you can read through.

We don't target any church or people to convert them to Mormonism. Missionaries from our church talk to everyone, regardless of their beliefs. Some are interested, and some are not. Mormons don't have the attitude that if you're not LDS, you have no truth in your church. We believe that there is truth in all religions, but that our church has the fulness of the gospel.

There are many things that Mormonism offers people that many Christian denomonations don't believe in. The belief in eternal families is an example.

but according to the book of mormon there are only TWO CHURCHES ....

COUNT 1 - church of the lamb

COUNT 2 - church of SATAN


so then, MORMON, baptist, catholic, ETC> ETC are ALL in the church of the LAMB?

 

[jonny]

so your telling me, when mormons on bikes knock on my door, and i tell them i am a christian, i follow christ, they turn and ride away!

or do they try to tell me about the book of mormon? if According to your answer, i am already in the church of the lamb, whats the point?

The point is that in Mormonism we aren't trying to avoid hell - which is the goal of most Christian denominations. It isn't black and white like that for us. In Mormonism we are trying to become as close to God as possible. In Mormonism you can achieve salvation without fulfilling your full potential. The reason why the missionaries probably won't simply ride away when you tell them that you're Christian is because we believe that there is more to know and believe. We've found fulfillment in these beliefs and share them with others who are interested. If you're not interested and tell them so, they will leave. If you're interested in hearing their message, they'll be more than happy to share it.

Have you ever actually listened to the message that the missionaries share? For example, we believe that there are still prophets on the earth. That's part of the message. Whether or not you believe if there are prophets, can you see why if there were prophets on the earth you might benefit from hearing what they have to say? If you believed that there were prophets today is it something that you might consider sharing with people?

 

[rocka21]

Just curious, but what are you trying to get out of this thread...?

read my first post - i have two questions........... if you are not mormon why do you care?

 

[Gentoo]

read my first post - i have two questions........... if you are not mormon why do you care?

....I care because I"m interested in LDS beliefs, and this thread seems to be another outlet for my learning about them.

 

[jonny]

but according to the book of mormon there are only TWO CHURCHES ....

COUNT 1 - church of the lamb

COUNT 2 - church of SATAN


so then, MORMON, baptist, catholic, ETC> ETC are ALL in the church of the LAMB?

You might be interested in this article: http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?id=168&table=jbms

Here are some quotes from the article on the topic:

When we put all this together, we find that the term great and abominable church means an immense assembly or association of people bound together by their loyalty to that which God hates. Most likely, this "church" is involved specifically in sexual immorality, idolatry (that is, false worship), or both. While the book of Revelation does not use the exact phrase great and abominable church, both John and Nephi use a number of similar phrases to describe it. They call it the "Mother of Harlots, and Abominations," "mother of abominations," and "the whore that sitteth upon many waters." (Revelation 17:1, 5; 1 Nephi 14:10–11).

In chapter 14, verse 10, however, Nephi describes the archetypal categories: "There are save two churches only"—the church of the Lamb of God, or Zion; and the church of the devil, or Babylon. "Whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth."


Apocalyptic literature is dualistic. Since it deals with types, everything boils down to opposing principles: love and hate, good and evil, light and dark. There are no gray areas in apocalyptic writing. In this sense, there are only two categories in the realm of religion: religion that will save and religion that won't. The former is the Church of the Lamb, and the latter, no matter how well intentioned, is a counterfeit.


In the historical sense, though, only one entity can be the great and abominable church. Well-intentioned churches would thus not qualify as the mother of abominations described in 1 Nephi 13. They do not slay the saints of God nor seek to control civil governments nor pursue wealth, luxury, and sexual immorality.


In either the apocalyptic sense or the historical sense, individual orientation to the Church of the Lamb or to the great and abominable church is not by membership but by loyalty. Just as there are Latter-day Saints who belong to the great and abominable church because of their loyalty to Satan and his lifestyle, so there are members of other churches who belong to the Lamb because of their loyalty to him and his lifestyle. Membership is based more on who has your heart than on who has your records.

 

[rocka21]

The point is that in Mormonism we aren't trying to avoid hell - which is the goal of most Christian denominations. It isn't black and white like that for us. In Mormonism we are trying to become as close to God as possible. In Mormonism you can achieve salvation without fulfilling your full potential. The reason why the missionaries probably won't simply ride away when you tell them that you're Christian is because we believe that there is more to know and believe. We've found fulfillment in these beliefs and share them with others who are interested. If you're not interested and tell them so, they will leave. If you're interested in hearing their message, they'll be more than happy to share it.

Have you ever actually listened to the message that the missionaries share? For example, we believe that there are still prophets on the earth. That's part of the message. Whether or not you believe if there are prophets, can you see why if there were prophets on the earth you might benefit from hearing what they have to say? If you believed that there were prophets today is it something that you might consider sharing with people?

please, go back and read my first post.

I am interested in the apperance of MORONI in 1821. do you have an answer, from the KJV.


by the way, on my way to church, so i will pick up later.

god bless you all and thanks for great debate.

( thats what this forum is for right??) so no hard feeling.

pray for me and i you, my brothers in CHRIST!!!!

 

[Bishka]

i take it the LDS are the church of the lamb of God, and ALL OTHERS - are the church of the devil. - some help translating this please- thanks.

Hardly. The Church of the Lamb of God is any Church that brings His children closer to Him. It's not a specific Church. Neither is the Church of the Devil, the Church of the devil is anyone that 'leads away' or promotes devilry.

 

[Bishka]

Question thou... if i am not in the church of Satan, why do you try to convert " CHRISTIANS" to be mormons?

Just to clarify, Mormons are Christians. And why do we want them to join our Church? Because we believe that our church has the absolutle fullness of the Church, of Christ's church. All the doctrine and His teachings. This isn't saying that the other Church don't have some, they do, but we believe we have the fullness.

 

[jonny]

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm/jstestimony

The Prophet Joseph Smith’s own words about the coming forth of the Book of Mormon are: “On the evening of the . . . twenty-first of September [1823] . . . I betook myself to prayer and supplication to Almighty God . . . . “While I was thus in the act of calling upon God, I discovered a light appearing in my room, which continued to increase until the room was lighter than at noonday, when immediately a personage appeared at my bedside, standing in the air, for his feet did not touch the floor.

this was moroni correct? Now my question is...... how could this be an ANGLE according to bible beliefs at the TIME and not according to what the Gold plates decribed what a Angel was. Because of course, Moroni was a living person at one time on this earth. I know what your beliefs on Angles are now, what do Joseph Smith belive about Angles.

Are you asking for scriptures from the KJV that show that an angel is someone who has lived before?

The word "angel" comes from the Greek word aggelos which means messenger. Using that terminology, an angel is a messenger from God. It is a pretty common theme in the bible for angels to be sent as messengers. Moroni was a messenger from God; therefore, the term "angel" is an appropriate one. Perhaps you could explain why you don't think that the term would be appropriate. Is there anywhere in the Bible where it says that an angel cannot be a being who has lived before?