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Consider that Capitalism is the Real Problem

Discussion in 'International Politics' started by Sunstone, Jul 13, 2017.

  1. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Probably no surprise I view capitalism as a major problem, and a threat to our continued existence.
    It's more the idea that under Capitalism making money and acquiring things and the American Dream replace god and the central focus of life.
     
  2. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    I'll admit that I've badmouthed capitalism quite a bit, but I think what the real problem might be is that there is too much blind faith in political systems where capitalism is allowed to flourish.

    Both capitalism and communism share a marked similarity in that their adherents are very devoted to their favorite "system" and are so zealously ideologically motivated to embrace that system purely for the sake of the system. When ideological purity becomes more important than common sense, then that is a problem.

    I tend to favor a more Keynesian model myself - a mixed economy which takes in the best elements of both capitalism and socialism. I think we can find ways to rein in some of the more egregious and odious examples of unrestrained capitalism - without going overboard, as was done in revolutionary communist societies (which were more driven by revenge against their former masters than in building something new and positive).

    Not all capitalists are bad. However, the reason society has been hobbled in doing much of anything about the darker elements of capitalism is largely ideological. In order to rein in the bad capitalists, it might mean having to violate some holy tenet of capitalism which even the good capitalists would balk against. It's because of this that many countries (including ours) become so hampered with organized crime and crooked politicians.

    If anyone has ever read any economist jokes, they put capitalism in a different light.


    Q: How many conservative economists does it take to change a light bulb?

    A1: None. If the government would just leave it alone, it would screw itself in.

    A2: None, because, look! It's getting brighter! It's definitely getting brighter!

    A3: None, they're all waiting for the unseen hand of the market to correct the lighting disequilibrium.
     
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  3. Nous

    Nous Well-Known Member
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    I am acutely suspicious of begining with a diagnosis before knowing what the symptoms are.

    Capitalism is the problem of what?
     
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  4. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    I don't think capitalism in and of itself is "evil". It's the people who abuse, manipulate, exploit the system who are "evil".
     
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  5. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    [​IMG]
    I'm not saying there's not a better system possible but it has been the most successful.

    It's been successful because it relies on greed, and self-interest is human nature.

    What ever economic system folks come up with has to content with human self interest to be successful. Anything else will be overcome by greed.

    Ideally everyone's greed balances out in capitalism. The reality is people's own greed can be used against them. So you go into debt and over extend yourself.

    Even though capitalism is based on greed, greed eventually defeats it as well.
     
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  6. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Sure, convince folks to sacrifice their self interest for the interest of God. The only problem there is who ever speaks for God gets all the power and can be as greedy as they want.

    Even that is a matter of self interest though. You expect to gain your heavenly reward.
     
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  7. Jeremiahcp

    Jeremiahcp Well-Known Jerk

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    "nice to be confirmed by a study. "

    There was no study in that link that confirmed that. Not even close.
     
  8. Jeremiahcp

    Jeremiahcp Well-Known Jerk

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    "I don't think that Capitalism is the problem... it is the hearts of men."

    :rolleyes: We all know that, that is why you try to balance it out with social systems.
     
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  9. Corvus

    Corvus Feathered eyeball connoisseur

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    Unfettered capitalism and unregulated predatory multinationals are a problem. Inequitable distribution of wealth is a problem. However capitalism is not the enemy in my view. The enemy is those who exploit the system or corrupt it, the free market as I am fond of saying, is indifferent to human suffering, in my view the key is balance. Capitalism I believe can work for everyone. If it is properly tamed.
     
  10. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Capitalism seems to have some structural problems that would remain even if the people who ran it, so to speak, were all pure of heart.
     
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  11. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Never heard of a war fought by capitalists for resources that created refugees, eh? Ever study history?
     
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  12. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member
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    I disagree completely. Jesus dealt with the heart. Didn't have a problem with rewarding hard work, rather, as a supporter of the Tannakh, believed in rewarding the one who treads the corn.
     
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  13. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member
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    Subjugation is, again, a matter of the heart. A correct heart would create an empowerment.
     
  14. The Holy Bottom Burp

    The Holy Bottom Burp Active Member

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    I would say that the "system" is not the problem, people are. I think if an alien species, that had never experienced the fight for survival over limited resources, looked down on us they might wonder about our obsession with money. If you have a comfortable place to live, bread on the table, a job giving you an income to keep you off the street, and some community shouldn't that be enough to keep you happy? I have all of those things and I'm content with life. I do wonder about the people who work monster hours, take enormous risks committing crime, even killing other people just for...money.
    Even if I win the lottery and splurge loads of money on a big house, big car, yacht etc. I don't think I'm going to be personally any more content with life than I am now. I enjoy my job, I want for nothing, I can live happily without the yacht. I've always had socialist views, it is true that the mark of civilisation is how we care for the most vulnerable people within it. Sadly we have a lot of completely self centred short term A-holes who would mug their own grandmother for a few more bucks to burn.
    I'm not entirely pessimistic though, in the days of the British Empire we treated the natives of other countries like sub humans, and robbed them of their natural resources. Today we are a little more progressive than that, and I hope we'll have progressed further still a 100 years from now. Nothing wrong with capitalism, as long as we regulate the greedy b*stards and curb their worst excesses.
     
  15. bobhikes

    bobhikes Nowoligist
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    I would argue that its democracy they want.
     
  16. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    Born and raised in the USA
    and having worked my bleeding fingers to the bone....

    I'm still ok with American economics


    and having read Animal Farm......
    I worry people might cave in to their needs and turn to the gov for relief

    but I have also seen a docu-film called Too Big to Fail

    it was terrifying!!!!!!!!
     
    #36 Thief, Jul 14, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  17. The Emperor of Mankind

    The Emperor of Mankind Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic

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    Which teachings and where does capitalism explicitly demand we reject the notion of deity? Is capitalism contrary to the anthropocentric view that the world exists primarily for our benefit as described in Genesis 1:26-30 or does capitalism perpetuate it?

    26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
    27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
    28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
    29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
    30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

    If capitalism is so against the teachings of your god then things like the Prosperity Gospel would be impossible to justify based on holy books like the Bible. While it's true that you could arguably justify socialism or communitarianism using sayings ascribed to Jesus, it's also true that capitalism finds justification in the Bible as well. It could also be argued that Islam justifies capitalism within certain contexts with its calling for the freeing of slaves if they (the slaves) can buy their freedom (called mukataba) in Surah 24:33:

    But let them who find not [the means for] marriage abstain [from sexual relations] until Allah enriches them from His bounty. And those who seek a contract [for eventual emancipation] from among whom your right hands possess - then make a contract with them if you know there is within them goodness and give them from the wealth of Allah which He has given you. And do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, if they desire chastity, to seek [thereby] the temporary interests of worldly life. And if someone should compel them, then indeed, Allah is [to them], after their compulsion, Forgiving and Merciful.

    ... and the payment of dowries aka bride prices.
     
    #37 The Emperor of Mankind, Jul 14, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  18. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

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    Could you cite an example?
     
  19. Corvus

    Corvus Feathered eyeball connoisseur

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    Didn't Jesus say ''Give everything you have to the poor and follow me, if you would be perfect'' doesn't sound compatible with capitalism to me.
     
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  20. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

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    Many of his parables centered around entrepreneurs that hired workers.
     
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